Another Sharpening Thread

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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In W&SS, we often talk about sharpening... how sharp to go, what to use, toothy edges vs. polished edges and everything in between. Sharpening can be a very personal thing to some and a PITA to others.

I was watching a video featuring a traditional Japanese sword sharpener. The extent that they take their craft is quite amazing. Definately not something the average user would ever consider. Check it out...

[youtube]T5lmhZiup3o[/youtube]

After watching that, I was contemplating about making a "How I sharpen" thread. I still think I may put together one at some point but it was just too large an undertaking for this morning. So I was browsing the tube for more videos. I wanted something that gave sound advice on the basic principles in achieving "the goal"... a sharp knife. I wanted it to be equally useful, whether you use stone, diamond, paper, ceramic, wheels, belts... whatever. Needles to say I watch A LOT of videos and found nothing. They were either too specialized or just plain bad.

I kept passing over this one "common mistakes" video by Expert Village because... well... Expert Village has consistantly proven to be anything but "expert" advice. I finally gave in and clicked the link. The video doesn't go into much detail of technique and I have to say that his short and simple breakdown of "the goal" is spot on. Definately worth watching... try to ignore the sideburns, m'kay?...

[youtube]YYnFL3zCYUY[/youtube]

Rick
 
Good stuff Rick...Hope you do come up with a sharpening video after having a chance to play with the surgical lazers of knives you make.
 
The Japanese guy didn't even have a mouse mat, shows how little he knows !:D
 
pitdog said:
The Japanese guy didn't even have a mouse mat, shows how little he knows !:D
Click to expand...

Obviously an amatuer. It takes him 10 days to sharpen a sword. I could have it done in 1.:D

What struck me though was how much pressure he used on the sword when grinding it. In one scene, the sword actually flexed with the pressure he was putting on it.
 
Shotgun said:
Obviously an amatuer. It takes him 10 days to sharpen a sword. I could have it done in 1.:D

What struck me though was how much pressure he used on the sword when grinding it. In one scene, the sword actually flexed with the pressure he was putting on it.
Click to expand...

Yeah that suprised me as well !:eek:
 
I think there's just a few things people have to understand about sharpening, and then the actual skill comes with practice.

1. The burr -- The burr is a tricky little thing, because on the one hand it's a great indicator for when two edges have met, but it's also the cause of a lot of frustrations in terms of edge retention or people thinking their sharpening technique isn't work because they're so often left on. The same happens when people never raise a burr. Understanding the burr is probably the most important thing in my mind.

2. Holding a consistent angle - A lot of people don't really seem aware of how much their hand wavers, or moving the knife to follow the curvature of the blade. There are lots of techniques like moving your arms or hips instead of your wrists that help to keep a consistent angle as well.

3. Lighter is better -- There's lots of people that figure the harder they press, the better it will grind. It fatigues the edge and can even cause it to roll in weird ways, not to mention it tears up the abrasive. Light pressure that let's the abrasive do the work is the best method.

4. Uneven and loaded stones -- Seems like a lot of people don't care to dress the surface of their abrasive properly. The surface being uneven and loaded is a major frustration that not a lot of people think about, but would probably save a lot of headaches if more care was invested in it.
 
Thanks for sharing awesome vid that shows a fine setup for whetstone sharpening.
Obviously any stones don't have flat surface but he doesn't worry about it,
and hooked stone is not for full length sharpening but it seems to be functional.
I haven't seen angled bench and I thought professional does on flat placing,
but it looks like naturally for him and I like his work processing style.

Here's Japanese whetstones what I like...
http://www.toishi.jp/index.html
 
ikuyadas said:
Thanks for sharing awesome vid that shows a fine setup for whetstone sharpening.
Obviously any stones don't have flat surface but he doesn't worry about it,
and hooked stone is not for full length sharpening but it seems to be functional.
I haven't seen angled bench and I thought professional does on flat placing,
but it looks like naturally for him and I like his work processing style.

Here's Japanese whetstones what I like...
http://www.toishi.jp/index.html
Click to expand...
It's not so much that he doesn't worry about it; but produces that shape for the stone on purpose.
The part(s) of the blade he is shown working on do not have an edge. We might use the word polishing; rather than sharpening for what he is doing
 
Briarbrow said:
It's not so much that he doesn't worry about it; but produces that shape for the stone on purpose.
The part(s) of the blade he is shown working on do not have an edge. We might use the word polishing; rather than sharpening for what he is doing
Click to expand...

Thanks for correcting words.
I think he took much more times for keeping proper surface of his whetstones than sharpening,
but it doesn't always means a strictly flat surface, that's what I inspired.

And I cannot be sure that he showed us a "blade polishing" process.
l feel he is "totally finishing or re-conditioning" the blade that include some delicate grindings,
and his work with large whetstone looks like "foundation" process what he calls.

Maybe final cosmetic/polishing process is such like this from 5:30 to 8:00.
I agree with some criticisms to cosmetic-biased expensive sharpening services,
but introduced scenes of sharpening were very informative for me.
[youtube]55BlqOj-hqo[/youtube]
 
Briarbrow said:
It's not so much that he doesn't worry about it; but produces that shape for the stone on purpose.
The part(s) of the blade he is shown working on do not have an edge. We might use the word polishing; rather than sharpening for what he is doing
Click to expand...

There is no difference to them. They treat the whole face of the bevel as one. They don't separate the primary from the secondary bevel like we do. Past the Shinogi (see pic), it is one plane leading to a zero degree edge... like a scandi, only convex. If they only sharpened the edge it would change the geometry of the blade little by little.

parts.gif
 
[youtube]jM8U3AHvLa4[/youtube]
I watched this man sharpen knives in real life a couple of weeks ago. He truly seems to enjoy himself. :)
 
I met Shosui almost three years ago, what a great guy. I buy my stones from him and he took some time to show me a few things. His father's Aogami steel is amazing, too. Sho is third generation master blacksmith.

PB190011.jpg
 
Nice unit..... er.... I mean, nice one, unit.

My wife is puzzled how I could spend a whole day sharpening blades then go to dinner at my inlaw's and take an hour sharpening their kitchen knives. I just love to do it. I keep a kit in my car... lol.


Rick
 
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