I know this has been done and overdone,BUT what do you feel are the best seel types.We have all heard about INFI being the best and it is agreat steel,but how about CPM-3OV,ATS-34,O1,and 1095.Yes they are different types of steel,stainless and carbon.I am honestly curious as to which is the best kind of steel without regard to corrosion resistance.Is INFI THE best of all steels made?How about CPM-30V,how does it compare.I own all these types of steel but it is hard to get a good handle on which is the best steel because the edges are designed so different or the blade are diff thicknesses.Really curious here.
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another steel question?
- Thread starter marsupial
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I can't remember the thread now, but recently I read a complaint by someone saying that INFI steel is hard to sharpen. Otherwise, I think the only steel I have seen claimed to be the absolute best of all knife steels is INFI, so some people must not mind the sharpening difficulty.
S30-V is said to be the best balanced stainless now available, although I have not read where anyone says it is better than carbon steels.
S30-V is said to be the best balanced stainless now available, although I have not read where anyone says it is better than carbon steels.
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No such thing as a "best"
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No such thing as a "best" steel. Best for what application? I think I hit the enter key before I was finished. Sorry.
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I agree with Fred. There are too many variables to say that there is one best steel. INFI is a great steel, but so is 52100, S30V, BG42, D2 and many, many more. Steels such as A2 may well be the best for one purpose, while even lowly 420J2 may be the best for another (very high corrosion resistance).
It is best to pick a steel based on the tasks it will have to perform. The steel that is good in most ways will likely be best in few to none.
It is best to pick a steel based on the tasks it will have to perform. The steel that is good in most ways will likely be best in few to none.
This is the response I honestly expected.So can I conclude that really any good heat treated steel with a a good edge is a good blade.In other words is any other steel a more aggressive cutting edge because it is either carbon or stainless?Do grinds have more to do with cutting efficiency than does the steel?And also please bear with me here but I want to know why INFI is the best? I do like it as I have several pieces myself ,but why is it the best? Is it the flexibility,corr res,edge or cutting ability?What factors make up the best steel?I am beggining to lean more and more toward high grinds myself for the simple fact that they seem to slice better,cut better ,filet better,and even chop better.Do I need to stick with just this kind of grind in a good heat treated steel?
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Heat treat means at least as much to the quality of the blade as does the steel used. A great steel poorly heat treated will be outperformed by a much lesser steel with a great heat treat.
Edge geometry and the thickness of the blade above the edge are the most important determining factors on how well a knife cuts. The steel itself makes little difference in this aspect of knife performance. If a steel has more carbides it will perform many cutting tasks more aggressively than steels with fewer carbides. These carbides act something like small serrations.
Is INFI the best steel? It is certainly an exceptional steel, but the best? Personally I think there are many others that are every bit as good. I think the main reason that INFI is great is its fantastic heat treat. I am not sure the low amount of nitrogen added to the steel makes all that much difference to its performance. It is a very high quality, tough steel with a great heat treat. That will generally make for an excellent blade material.
Edge geometry and the thickness of the blade above the edge are the most important determining factors on how well a knife cuts. The steel itself makes little difference in this aspect of knife performance. If a steel has more carbides it will perform many cutting tasks more aggressively than steels with fewer carbides. These carbides act something like small serrations.
Is INFI the best steel? It is certainly an exceptional steel, but the best? Personally I think there are many others that are every bit as good. I think the main reason that INFI is great is its fantastic heat treat. I am not sure the low amount of nitrogen added to the steel makes all that much difference to its performance. It is a very high quality, tough steel with a great heat treat. That will generally make for an excellent blade material.
The blade geometry & sharpness are the most important, since they determine how well or poorly a knife will cut.
Since, no matter how good the blade is, a knife is useless with out a handle to control it, I would rate the handle ergonomics next in importance.
Steel/heat treat are third in importance, since they essentially, determine how long the edge will stay sharp by resisting wear, rolling, micro-chipping, rust ect. While a poor heat treat will ruin a good steel, I think poor heat treatments are rare, since most reputable manufactures control heat treatments fairly well. No heat treatment, no matter how good will turn 420j2 into BG42, so the heat treatment should not be over rated. The steel basically dictates the heat treat for optimum performance, although re is always some debate on exactly what is optimum for a specific steel in a specific knife, and how to obtain it with heat treatment.
The steel and heat treat also determine how much a blade will rust, and for some users, this is more important then edge holding.
Blade strength is determined mainly be geometry and to a lesser extent by the steel/heat treatment. How important strength is is dependent on how a knife is used. Knives used for light cutting do not need a lot of resistance to impact or bending, but a "hard use' knife intended for chopping and prying dose.
The nitrogen in INFI forms nitrides which are similar to carbides in that they incease wear resistance.
-Frank
Since, no matter how good the blade is, a knife is useless with out a handle to control it, I would rate the handle ergonomics next in importance.
Steel/heat treat are third in importance, since they essentially, determine how long the edge will stay sharp by resisting wear, rolling, micro-chipping, rust ect. While a poor heat treat will ruin a good steel, I think poor heat treatments are rare, since most reputable manufactures control heat treatments fairly well. No heat treatment, no matter how good will turn 420j2 into BG42, so the heat treatment should not be over rated. The steel basically dictates the heat treat for optimum performance, although re is always some debate on exactly what is optimum for a specific steel in a specific knife, and how to obtain it with heat treatment.
The steel and heat treat also determine how much a blade will rust, and for some users, this is more important then edge holding.
Blade strength is determined mainly be geometry and to a lesser extent by the steel/heat treatment. How important strength is is dependent on how a knife is used. Knives used for light cutting do not need a lot of resistance to impact or bending, but a "hard use' knife intended for chopping and prying dose.
The nitrogen in INFI forms nitrides which are similar to carbides in that they incease wear resistance.
-Frank
I think that for a knife buyer it is pretty difficult to determine the quality of any given knife aside from learning the reputation of the maker. One can learn what steel a knife is made from, but then a poor heat treat can ruin it. A knowledgeable person may also be able to examine a knife and visually determine if the blade geometry is good.
I have seen nothing on Bladeforums indicating that it is possible to visually examine a knife and determine how well it is heat treated. A knowledgeable person might be able to determine if the heat treatment is good or bad by observing the performance of the knife, but otherwise one is in the dark.
So I would say that, for most of us, the best evidence of a knife's quality is simply the reputation of the maker. Knowing the type of steel only tells one the potential performance of the knife.
On the other hand, the type of steel can be a rough guide in the sense that poor quality knives aren't usually made from top of the line steel. I think that one is very unlikely to come across a Pakistani POS made from S30=V, for example.
I have seen nothing on Bladeforums indicating that it is possible to visually examine a knife and determine how well it is heat treated. A knowledgeable person might be able to determine if the heat treatment is good or bad by observing the performance of the knife, but otherwise one is in the dark.
So I would say that, for most of us, the best evidence of a knife's quality is simply the reputation of the maker. Knowing the type of steel only tells one the potential performance of the knife.
On the other hand, the type of steel can be a rough guide in the sense that poor quality knives aren't usually made from top of the line steel. I think that one is very unlikely to come across a Pakistani POS made from S30=V, for example.
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I often think that these 'best knife'/'best steel' questions are based on the 'what if?' or 'if you could only have one knife' scenarios. I know I've asked the question with this in mind.
I remember reading an article by a survival expert (?) talking about knives and how we are spoilt for choice these days (>10 years ago) and how even a POS $5 hollow handle knife with crap steel and a bottle opener in the blade gives you a huge advantage over say, stone-age man.
I mean, look how far we've come, starting with just sharp stones and a little ingenuity!
I would rather be stuck on that island with Wilson and a Ka Bar, than with a pair of ice skates with INFI blades!
It is right and good that we should strive for improvement and refinement, but there comes a point when you should stop thinking about the tool, and start thinking about the job.
The most valuable part of this question was not "is INFI the best steel?" but "WHY do some people think that INFI is the best steel?".
Understand your materials and your tools, and nothing is beyond you.
I apologise if I've repeated anyone elses ideas.
I hope this reply doesn't sound too critical, I'm just trying to apply my perspective to the question.
I remember reading an article by a survival expert (?) talking about knives and how we are spoilt for choice these days (>10 years ago) and how even a POS $5 hollow handle knife with crap steel and a bottle opener in the blade gives you a huge advantage over say, stone-age man.
I mean, look how far we've come, starting with just sharp stones and a little ingenuity!
I would rather be stuck on that island with Wilson and a Ka Bar, than with a pair of ice skates with INFI blades!
It is right and good that we should strive for improvement and refinement, but there comes a point when you should stop thinking about the tool, and start thinking about the job.
The most valuable part of this question was not "is INFI the best steel?" but "WHY do some people think that INFI is the best steel?".
Understand your materials and your tools, and nothing is beyond you.
I apologise if I've repeated anyone elses ideas.
I hope this reply doesn't sound too critical, I'm just trying to apply my perspective to the question.
Steel and the reputation of the maker. Sounds right. So, can I get any opinions on the knives of John Greco, from Tenn.? I am just on the verge of buying one of his "fighting" knives, at a good price.
However, going to his website I find that he is making newer knives and has totally changed his preference in steel.
The knife I want to buy is A2, which I always thought was right up there, in terms of knife steel, Now, apparently, he has switched to 8670, which he claims has an edge RC of 58, with a "dead soft" spine, adding to it's flexiblility. And that the 8670 is "easier to sharpen and holds an edge longer". Big claims. I'm inclined to go with the older A2 model.
Can you guys help me make the proper decision?
John in Boise
However, going to his website I find that he is making newer knives and has totally changed his preference in steel.
The knife I want to buy is A2, which I always thought was right up there, in terms of knife steel, Now, apparently, he has switched to 8670, which he claims has an edge RC of 58, with a "dead soft" spine, adding to it's flexiblility. And that the 8670 is "easier to sharpen and holds an edge longer". Big claims. I'm inclined to go with the older A2 model.
Can you guys help me make the proper decision?
John in Boise