Martin, Talonte has two very outstanding properties in regards to edge retention. First off all, it is immune to corrosion that will destroy even the most resistant cutlery stainless steels so it can be used without harm in very harsh enviroments. Secondly it has a very high wear resistance due to the insane amount of alloy carbides. Those two abilities have lead to a very strong push for Talonite in edge retention, and if those were the only factors it would be very good indeed, near the top of the list, however they are not.
Talonite also has two very poor properties in regards to edge retention. First off, it is very soft compared to cutlery steels and thus will indent and/or deform readily. Secondly it is weak compared to quality cutlery steels and thus will roll much more extensively. In fact these properties are in some ways more important than the first two (except regarding corrosion, if your enviroment is harsh enough that is all that matters). To test this, the next time your knife blunts use a canvas strop and/or smooth steel to align the edge. You will notice a huge increase in performance simply from straightening the edge.
Now I should clarify that while the above is true in general (blunting is due to deformation rather than wear), there are obvious exceptions. For example there are materials that are so abrasive that they can wear steel away from a knife edge extremely rapidly. I have the great fortune to work in construction a few years back and spent many days putting up fibreglass insulation. This would wear a knife down very rapidly. Not just alignment either, it would wear the edge completely smooth. Sometimes I get curious as to how some of the better alloys I have now would respond to that, not that curious as to want to do it again though.
In regards to long term edge holding, that is to say you keep cutting with the edge having significantly rolled. It may be true that Talonite will outperform steel in this regard. However generally it doesn't make much sense to me to do this as the blade is now performing at a very low level as compared to when it was sharp. I have done it down to even 10% remaining cutting ability and have never seen Talonite readily outperform steels, in fact is has always gone the other way because they resist deformation longer (with the exceptions as listed in the above).
Anyway, in regards to toughness and ductility, I never bent any of the Talonite blade I had so I can't comment on where and how they break. However I did subject the edge to decent impacts and it resisted facture better than the stainless blade with similar edge angles (VG-10, ATS-34). However the Talonite one suffered more impaction. It does work really well in scraping tasks on hard surfaces as compared to the high edge retention alloys, I had to scrape a few headstones clean last year and I seem to recall it handling it better than the other blades I was using. I should have used the CPM-10V blade I have, but the edge is too weak for that kind of thing and I didn't want to waste the metal changing the profile.
If you are curious as to how it does perform drop Cougar Allen a line and ask him to send the blade he has on loan from me to you when he is finished with it. Do whatever you want with it, the only condition I ask it that you do similar with a decent steel blade of similar geometry to allow perspective. Return the blade, or pieces to me when you are finished with it.
Tom :
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Cliff Stamp is very unhappy with Rob Simonich and I because we will not give him a
knife to test.</font>
This is a complete lie which you also spammed rec.knives with awhile ago and then later apologized for. If you are going to make stuff up why not be original 'Cliff Stamp speaks out against Talonite but he is not telling you the whole story. Cliff Stamp and Rob Simonich were fierce rivals for the affections of the same woman and Rob won in the end as she could not resist his good looks and charm. Cliff has never forgive Rob and has swore to get revenge on him no matter what it takes. He will take that resentment to his grave'. Here is a picture of the gal whose heart Rob won away from me :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/on_a_good_day.jpg
I can't believe I lost her, she even almost had all her teeth.
Anyway, back to me asking for free Talonite blades, Rob Simonich offered me a Talonite blade to evaluate. I did not ask him, he contacted me and asked if I would give him my opinion on it after using it. I refused because it was his personal blade (Cetan I believe), and because at that time the materials ability was unknown to me so I would not look at it as there was too great a probability of damaging it. He noted that this wasn't a problem and not to worry, however it is not something I would do. I also turned down several knives from Bladeforums member for similar reasons (and for other knives as well, usually from makers I have not dealt with). I never asked Tom for a Talonite knife, but he did offer me a piece of material to make a blade out of. Which I turned down because I don't have the equipment to grind it (dust is toxic). I later bought a Talonite blade to use from Allen Blade, and have used others belonging to Will York.
Regarding "free" knives in general, the last time I have asked for a blade to review was when P.J. Turner asked Nemo to review a Uluchet and Nemo commented he was busy so I dropped P.J. an email and told him I had some free time. In any case in regards to "free" blades, I have never kept any blade I was *loaned* to review nor do I except discounts on knives I buy because of reviews I write. And I have payed more for shipping charges, custom duties and inspection fees for knives I no longer have than it would cost me to get a complete line of fixed blades from Busse Combat. As well, if it was my goal to get free knives, writing the reviews in the manner I do would be the absolute worst way to go about it for obvious reasons.
As for lots of makers who think Talonite is great, well yes there are, there are also those who think it isn't. As well all of those endorsing it are biased because they are selling it (obviously so are the people who don't because they are selling steel blades instead). Tom Waltz of course being obviously even more so. If you were looking for a dependable low milage car would you go around and ask the manufactures if they made the best one? As for why don't you see makers commenting on it in a negative way if such do exist? Well you can if you search the forms carefully, you can even note a change in opinion after the depand for Talonite literally boomed. However in general such opinions will not be expressed publically for obvious reasons. As indicated in the above by Tom's reply, such commentary is hardly desired. If you really want unbiased information from makers you have to gain their trust and speak to them directly. And be absolutely willing without fail to keep to personal confidence all the wonderful things they tell you even though there are times when the desire is strong not to do so.
Now I am *NOT* saying this is true in general of knife makers and manufactures (they don't desire open and direct critism). I know many that respond very well to even the harshest critisms as tact has never been a personal strong point. But I know many that will have a simple dialogue without resorting to lies and personal attacks such that Tom has made in that above reply even when I have said far worse critisms about their products than I have ever said about Talonite which simply put is that it deforms and roll more readily than the high end cutlery steels. I have also clarified some claims that are borderline hype such as "Talonite keeps cutting a long time after it lose its razor edge", well yes it does a great deal in fact, however so do steel blades. Blunting is exponential, not linear. The blunter a blade gets the more work you need to do to make it blunter, that is based on a few simple principles such as the more deformed an edge is the more force needed to deform it further because you have to bend a thicker piece of steel. You are also work hardening it, I don't know how much influence the latter has though, none that I can tell because if it did you would see a greater edge retention after steeling and I have only seen worse.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 06-01-2001).]
