Another Wave Ripoff - The Miscreant Replies

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For those of you who expressed support for me on this issue or at least were willing to believe that maybe my intent wasn't an outright rip off of Emerson's Wave(R) design, I thank you. For the rest of you who were willing, even anxious, to see this vile miscreant sued within an inch of his life and maybe farther I would tell you the same thing I told Ernest Emerson himself this afternoon had any of you bothered to ask me.

Emerson, by the way, is a gentleman and I very much appreciate the fact that he took the time to call me himself rather than have a lawyer do it. The first thing we agreed on is there is too much useless litigation going on. It is my opinion that the only people who really benefit from it are the lawyers.

We discussed the patent concept in general. Thirty years ago, when I was in college, patents seemed more specific to me than they do now. Then, you could patent a toaster because of the exact way you built it but you could not patent the concept of toasting bread. That's why there are a lot of toasters on the market, all patented, all built differently, and yet they do the same thing.

These days, I'm not so sure that interpretation still applies. The Patent Office seems willing to grant much broader patents. My stance on the Pocket Hook was basically this: I was already making them when the first announcement about the Wave(R) appeared in Blade magazine. To me, the Pocket Hook looked like a better idea because it was not built into the blade. That might make it different enough to not infringe on Emerson's patent, I thought. At any rate, I figured I'd keep making them until someone told me to stop. Let me also clarify one point: I said I was already making the Pocket Hook - I didn't say I was making it before Emerson made the Wave(R), only that I was making it before he announced the Wave(R). It takes a long time to get a patent so I assume he had the design considerably in advance of the announcement and very possibly before I came up with the Hook. That's OK too. Alexander Bell got to the patent office only an hour or so ahead of the OTHER guy that invented the telephone. Same thing with Marconi and the radio. Happens all the time, no big deal.

I knew that just because I was making them before Emerson announced his patent did not mean I could continue to do so if the Pocket Hook was in fact violating the patent. We discussed how some overseas companies run around looking for good ideas like that that are not yet patented and then go and patent the idea themselves. That may seem unfair to some people but it is legal and I know that. I fully expected that someday that very thing would probably happen to the Pocket Hook but I don't care. I still think it's a good idea but I never intended to patent it myself. Patents are too expensive and take a long time and I just don't care enough to do it.

So, while I came away from our conversation still not 100% sure if Mr. Emerson considered the Pocket Hook an infringment of the Wave(R) patent I did find out about a new patent, as yet unannounced, for a removable type of Wave(R) device. That patent, even I can see I would be violating so I readily agreed to cease and desist making the Pocket Hook. I do look forward, however, to seeing the Emerson version to see if he found a way to make it attractive because I agree with the guy who said it was ugly. That it is - but it works soooo good!

For what it's worth, I think the Pocket Hook is a great idea but the truth is it was not easy to sell to customers. It was very hard to get the idea across to strangers about how it worked and how cool it was. Over the last 3 or 4 years I probably sold fewer than a dozen to strangers who had never actually seen one. Most of the ones you see on my website were made for people who know me and have handle the knives equipped with the Hook. Further, they aren't that easy to make so I'm not going to miss them much. I had already stopped selling them in California and Massachusetts because I came to believe they might violate the switchblade law there.

For those of you who feel that Emerson might need your help in protecting his interests, if you'd care to check my website in a few days you'll find a disclaimer there that will say something to the effect that although you may see the Pocket Hook in the pictures for a while yet, it will no longer be available.

Again, I'd like to publicly thank Mr. Emerson for the gracious way that he handled this issue (almost apologetic actually). Given the chance, two reasonable people can usually solve their differences without resorting to the courts.

In conclusion, if you like my designs and want a high quality handcrafted folder at a reasonable price please check out my website. If you want a Pocket Hook or similar device, then see Mr. Emerson. He makes good knives too....
 
Ray:

Firstly, I would like to congratulate you on coming to a mutual agreement with Mr. Emerson and EKI. I must say, you were very eloquent with your words and demonstrated a professionalism rarely found these days.

I monitored the thread initiated by Rosanghal with much interest. I certainly can appreciate the defensive stance taken by many of the Usual Suspects. It seems EKI has taken a beating of late by 'copy-cat' manufacturers.

In any case, Thank you for doing the right thing.
 
Thank you sir, for sharing the information with us. I appreciate your candor. I'm glad things have been worked out.
 
Mr. Rogers

Quote rayrogers:
Emerson, by the way, is a gentleman

Yes, he is. A very optomistic and trusting man as well.

Quote rayrogers:
The first thing we agreed on is there is too much useless litigation going on. It is my opinion that the only people who really benefit from it are the lawyers.

Agreed

Quote rayrogers:
At any rate, I figured I'd keep making them until someone told me to stop
Quote rayrogers:
It takes a long time to get a patent so I assume he had the design considerably in advance of the announcement and very possibly before I came up with the Hook.
Quote rayrogers:
I knew that just because I was making them before Emerson announced his patent did not mean I could continue to do so if the Pocket Hook was in fact violating the patent.

:rolleyes:

Quote rayrogers:
So, while I came away from our conversation still not 100% sure if Mr. Emerson considered the Pocket Hook an infringment of the Wave(R) patent

I'd wager that if he didn't consider it a violation he wouldn't have called and/or made comments about Lawyers.

Quote Ernest Emerson on 02/22/01:
The self-opening feature or “wave” as, it is called by many, is a patented and owned invention of Emerson Knives. This also covers add-on waves.

In closing, it isn't my patent. I am but a mere consumer . . . an informed consumer I like to think. I have no financial stake in EKI.

Having said all that, I stand behind my comments on the other thread

Glad to hear your going to do the right thing, good luck to you Sir.

John Hollister
 
Mr. Hollister,

While I appreciate your comments on this whole issue I feel that if you look for the worst in
people you will generally find it. Under the circumstances I described (having already been
making the things and seeing what I considered a substantial difference in them) I only did
what I already know is a fairly common business tactic - keep making it until someone stops
you. Probably the biggest dereliction on my part was not trying to determine right away if my
view of the situation was valid. Had I been a substantial manufacturing concern that produced
100 knives a day with that feature you can be assured that I would have been trying to reach
Emerson within the hour. But, as I probably don't make 100 knives a year and half of those
are kitchen knives and only a small part of the remainder had the feature I chose the path I
did.

None of this is to excuse the choices I made. I made those choices wiith my eyes wide open.
At no time did I ever plan a legal challenge to Emerson's patent - that would be worse than
pointless. But, I don't always choose the do things the easy way - I was already making them
and if they want me to stop they'll have to say so. A stubborn streak ,that's all. As far as I'm
concerned, it was all worth it just to get to talk to one of my knifemaking heroes for a while.

If you will bear with me for a bit longer, I'd like to respond to a few of your points:
quote:
*******
Quote rayrogers:
So, while I came away from our conversation still not 100% sure if Mr. Emerson
considered the Pocket Hook an infringment of the Wave(R) patent

When I asked him straight out if the Pocket Hook infringed on his patent I don't recall that he said "yes". Maybe I'm
having a Presidential moment here but I don't think he said that. What he did do was start explaining what his patents
did cover and so I am unclear rather or not the original Wave(R) patent covered it or not. But, that's a moot point
because he covered the subject with one patent or another before he was done. At that instant, we immediately came
to an agreement: He would make knives with the Wave(R) feature and I wouldn't. I said it, he didn't have to.
*******
I'd wager that if he didn't consider it a violation he wouldn't have called and/or made comments about Lawyers.

Actually, he didn't comment on lawyers until I thanked him for calling personally instead of
having his lawyer do it. Granted, this was probably the first sentence I spoke to him
because I had been expecting this call for years. Looking forward to it actually. I made no attempt to deny or excuse my actions at all. I got right to the point because I knew what the call had to be about.

He might
have brought up lawyers in another sentence or two but I doubt it. He's not the kind of
person who needs to swagger, threaten, and throw his weight around in order to feel good
about himself. Any highly trained martial artist will usually try almost any other tactic to
solve a problem before he resorts to force and I think that's exactly what he was doing.

Make no mistake - I am not a fool and I'm not naive. At no time did I confuse Mr.
Emerson's courtesy with weakness. In the world of knifemaking, I consider him to be the
800 pound gorilla and I have no doubt whatsoever that he would pursue any violator of his
patent with all due vigor and with every necessary resource.
********
quote:

Quote Ernest Emerson on 02/22/01:
The self-opening feature or "wave" as, it is called by many, is a patented and owned
invention of Emerson Knives. This also covers add-on waves.

I wish he had said that a few years back or written it somewhere that I would have seen it!

*********
 
Originally posted by rayrogers


*******
I'd wager that if he didn't consider it a violation he wouldn't have called and/or made comments about Lawyers.

Actually, he didn't comment on lawyers until I thanked him for calling personally instead of
having his lawyer do it. Granted, this was probably the first sentence I spoke to him
because I had been expecting this call for years.[/i]

Huh? You expected the call for years about the Wave patent. So you knew, Emerson calling was going to happen yet continued making the Wave onto your knives?

That doesn't sound like a common business practice to me. It sounds like you knew it was wrong and until they caught up with you you'd just keep on doing what you were doing. Your words not mine:

quote:
Originally posted by rayrogers
My stance on the Pocket Hook was basically this: I was already making them when the first announcement about the Wave(R) appeared in Blade magazine.

You saw the Wave and the fact that it had a patten but chose to forget about it.:confused:

Originally posted by rayrogers

Quote:

Quote Ernest Emerson on 02/22/01:
The self-opening feature or "wave" as, it is called by many, is a patented and owned
invention of Emerson Knives. This also covers add-on waves.

I wish he had said that a few years back or written it somewhere that I would have seen it!

*********

He did say it were you could have seen it. You joined Bladeforums on 9/26/2000. Mr. Emerson made that post in 2001.

Ross T.
 
Please go back and re-read what I wrote to Mr. Hollister. I already explained why I continued to do it. I thought it might be a patent infringement but since I was already doing it I wanted somebody to have to tell me. A stubborn streak, if you will. If it had been materially harming anyone it would be a differnt story. I was already making them and only on a very small scale - I knew there would never be any money for the idea (just because Emerson did it first doesn't make my pride in my parallel developement any less - I didn't know he did it until his announcement), there would never be any recognition and I really didn't care. It's enough to see the idea get used. But, my quirky litle payback is I wanted someone to tell me face to face (figuratively). I'm very pleased with how it played out.

As for not reading what Emerson wrote years ago, sorry, but there are lots of things on lots of forums that I don't read. Until this issue came up I don't think I'd never been on the Emerson forum. I think I've only been on the other forums 2 or 3 times when someone reviews one of my knives. Most of my time that I spend on forums is used helping to moderate the Newbie forum on the CKD - and I don't do a lot of that.
 
Ray,
(Pardon the informality please, I can't bring myself to call you "Mister Rogers.")
;)

You strike me as a very well-spoken, intelligent, and literate man and I have no desire or intent to insult or incite.

However,

Patent Violation is an unlawful act. (Like, a crime.)

<b>Quote by Ray Rogers
I thought it might be a patent infringement but since I was already doing it I wanted somebody to have to tell me.</b>

I would hope Sir, that someone has told you not to commit Murder, Theft, Rape, etcetera, as by your logic, it's okay until such time as you specifically are told to stop?

Perhaps some of the Usual Suspects got a little too excited about this particular issue, but then again perhaps not.

If, as you claim, you were making "detatchable waves" before the patent went into effect, or even before you had any knowledge of such a pending patent, then you are indeed innocent of "ripping off" the design. In such circumstances you could rightly claim that it was "identical results through independent efforts" and your work would be recognized with a great deal more legitimacy than those who have "reverse-engineered" (read as, "steal") Ernie's work.

However, your claim that your actions ( i.e. continuing to produce "detatchable waves" inspite of knowledge that your work was a violation of Patent Law.) are (in legal terms) "Usual and Customary" is very cleary a morally unsupported position.

Far better to admit you made the mistake than try to defend an indefensible action.

In either case, since you've halted any further work in this area, the point is moot and you deserve credit for that action.

Though I consider your previous actions wrong, and your argument flawed, I also consider you a gentleman. Mistaken though you may be.


Thank you for your courteous responses in this issue.
 
Ken,

Thank you for your level headed and even response.

I think every one knows that murder and rape are generally considered illegal. I've even said it was a dereliction on my part not to have checked and I provided a rationalization for that (and yes, I admit it was rationalizing).

All I really wanted to bring to light was that I didn't "rip off" the design. The subsequent infringment resulted by what, in chess, would be call a 'discovered check'. Something changed and put me in a different situation than what I had before. Mea culpa, my fault for not doing something about it and I admit it. I'm bull headed, stubborn, willful, and cranky. It's always gotten me in trouble and it probably always will.

But, as trouble goes, this wasn't much. Emerson was great, I feel vindicated, done deal.

People break laws every day, usually unintentionally. There is no real way you can leave your house and do much at all without breaking some law. Did you know that in many places if you park your car without setting the parking brake you've broken the law?

Obviously, there's a difference in severity here but let's put things in perspective. I wasn't cranking out a thousand of these a day in Hong Kong. There's no way I'd do that. We each have a personal limit to how far we're willing to stretch the law. Some will somke a joint, and some will sell cocaine in large volumes. Some would have sex with a 14 year old girl and the rest would wait a couple of years. Some would accept the courts decision in a custody case and a few would kidnap their own child. The law recognizes the difference in the severity of these crimes and considers extinuating circumstances. I have a fairly low tolerance for breaking the law (that means I don't do it easily folks!) but in this case I saw it as a minor infraction and I was feeling spiteful enough to do it anyway.

You've all had situations come up, or you will if you live long enough, that will punch your buttons. What will you do when your time comes?

Are you sure?
 
To equate patent infringement to murder, theft, and rape is just plain wrong. Patents are challenged all the time by people who have been making products that may or may not violate a patent. In fact, there is no way to really know if something is in violation without going to court or at least getting a lawyers opinion.

In a substantial number of cases it is the patentee who loses out when the court finds the patent invalid or narrows it so much that it affords only little protection.

Why do you think Mr. Emerson called Rogers himself? He can't be 100 percent sure if his patent would hold up to a challenge and in fact it may only be a 50/50 chance. So what does he do? He uses the great business technique of the personal phone call. Rogers is wowed talking to the All Mighty Mr. Emerson (who wouldn't be) and can't do much else but agree not to go to court or make any more wave like devices.

So give Rogers a break. You never know, he could get pissed and legally challenge the wave patent. Maybe he would win. Then everybody would be waving. Wouldn't that be fun.

JT
 
I'm with JTurner...

You know...sometimes I just have to sit back and shake my head...

Not only did some forumites exhibit absolute glee at the prospect of Mr. Emerson...sorry...Mr. Emerson's lawyers contacting Mr. Rogers...but you people are still at it. Incredible! Stunning! Is it sport to you people? Perhaps a career change to "cock-fight" promoter might be in order for those intent on stirring the pot.

I thought we had covered in the other thread that patent infringement is an area with many shades of gray. Pay attention to what JTurner just posted. He could be right. Ernie could be the one to lose out if push came to shove. Now I read posts where forumites are acting like it was all cut-and-dried. Now I read posts that condescend to Ray by saying, in effect, "well son...you did wrong...got your slap on the wrist...but ya did the right thing. Could have been worse for ya son...you got off lucky." (I'm reading the lines...and what's between them.)

Some of you people take yourselves waaaaaaaay too seriously. Your collective investment in Emerson's knives is, quite often, pathetic. This sycophantic idolatry would be funny if it weren't, at the same time, so off-putting.

You want to know why EKI gets hammered on this forum and others? Hmmmm? Perhaps it has more to do with the personality of some of the more vocal users...than it has to do with the quality of the knives...or with EE himself. Perhaps the bad taste left in the collective mouths of the unwashed masses generalizes to EKI. How many more left-handed apologies to Mr. Rogers must we all suffer through. (Pardon me while I go brush my teeth and chew some Altoids.)

Let me spell it out for you all. You don't make Emerson's knives. None of you invented the wave. I'm guessing most of you don't have the creativity or knife making skills that Mr. Emerson and Mr. Rogers possess. I don't. So...stop taking ownership. All you have done (or will do) is plunk down some cash. Let Ray and Ernie who (like it or not suspects...are the only two interested parties here) hash things out.

I'm not trying to be harsh...oh...what the heck...sure I am. I apologized for the "small" crack I made about EE in the other thread. Now I realize that that moniker should have been hung around the neck(s) of a suspect or two.

People...people...please....get some self-esteem for yourselves. Don't keep borrowing it from Ernie.

Put it to bed...

Murder? Get a life...and some perspective...
 
LynnBob,
I have a life, thanks much.

As to the idea that I was attempting to say that Patent Infringement was a crime equal in severity to murder, bullshyte. Don't even try to go there. Either you're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill or your intelligence is "questionable."

As for being "still at it" as you say, check back. The above was my first comment on the matter to date. Be careful where you swing your wide paintbrush.

As to your comment,
<b>"Some of you people take yourselves waaaaaaaay too seriously. Your collective investment in Emerson's knives is, quite often, pathetic. This sycophantic idolatry would be funny if it weren't, at the same time, so off-putting."</b>

There's a simple solution to your being so horribly "put off." Don't visit the Emerson forum. It's gotten along quite well without you in the past, it'll muddle through without you in the future.

Nuff said.

---------------------------

JTurner,
Quote from JTurner,
<b>To equate patent infringement to murder, theft, and rape is just plain wrong. Patents are challenged all the time..."</b>

1. see Paragraph One of this post.

2. Rape, Theft and Murder charges are contested all the time too. I daresay more often than Patent Infringement charges are contested.

3. While there is a disparity of severity between the four crimes; Murder, Theft, Rape, and Patent Infringement, my point was that all four are crimes. If you think Patent Infringement is not a crime, let's hope you never invent something only to see the product of your labor stolen away from you and your market glutted by "Intellectual Pirates" who will make a quick buck and move on to fresh meat as soon as you are consumed.

4. On one count, Patent Infringement is exactly as severe as the crime mentioned. That crime is theft.

Patent Infringement is the theft of a man's mind.
Rather than lifting the petty cash from a man's pocket, Patent Infringement is the theft of a man's intelligence, devotion to his career, his time, and as such, it is the theft of days, weeks, and sometimes years of a man's life.

I'd say that's pretty severe.

--------------------------

Ray,

(Please don't take any of the comments above as being directed at yourself or the situation you found yourself in. I am speaking in generalities)

Not that my opinion carries a Hell of a lot of weight, but that's good enough for me.

Thanks.
 
Ken,

"...still at it" was not directed at you.

As to your comments about not visiting if I'm put off:

I'm providing honest feedback (my opinion). I'm sorry I can't just give high-fives and atta-boys like the rest of the gang. Sometimes the truth hurts. All too often differences of opinion are attacked...and/or the person with the different opinion is asked to not visit the forum again. I firmly believe that an inability to accept feedback is the mark of an immature and insecure mind. (But, perhaps my intelligence is questionable.) (Ken...that last comment re: the insecure mind is not necessarily directed at you either. Instead, it is meant to comment on the all too prevalent yea-saying in many of the "makers" forums.)
 
<b>"Some of you people take yourselves waaaaaaaay too seriously. Your collective investment in Emerson's knives is, quite often, <font color=red>pathetic</font>. This <font color=red>sycophantic idolatry</font> would be funny if it weren't, at the same time, so off-putting."</b>

If that's "feedback" I'd hate to see flames.

For the record, you need not give "atta-boys" or high-fives. You need not place "Usual Suspect" in your sig line, and you don't have to like Emerson knives.

But if you don't like the knives (or the forum for that matter) then what are you doing here?

I don't care for the knives of certain manufacturers. Know what?
I don't post there!

Yes, I visit those forums, it's part of my "job" as a SuperMod, but if I have nothing worthwhile to contribute, I say nothing and move along.

Consider this...

You posit the theory that people "hate" EKI because of how staunchly EKI is defended by some Usual Suspects.

This is the basic "Chicken or the Egg" riddle, but in this case it's an easy one to figure out.
Go to the General Forum.

Search for "Emerson" "EKI" "Quality" "Quality Control" what have you and spend several weeks reading the threads. The answer will make itself clear to you.
 
none of my biz, but i think patent infingement is a CIVIL not CRIMINAL matter to begin with, unless of course the individual infringing ignores a court order and gets hit w/contempt of court - i think thats how it works.....

agree the guy should quit making the knives w/the opening device, EE does have the patent, its the right thing to do...and he's doing it isnt he??

imho none of this is our biz, EE has evidently settled it to his atisfaction, so whats it to us??

sifu
 
SIFU1A -- your right it is none of our business. I just don't like it when someone like Mr. Cook comes out with blatantly wrong statements regarding the law at the expense of someone else.

No one gets arrested or put in jail for possible patent infringement. Remember Rogers has not been found to have infringed on Emersons Patent by anyone except for a few Emerson forum frequenters(and that doesn't count for much). In fact...it is questionable at best whether he has infringed on anything. If it were to go to court who knows who would win out and Mr. Emerson is likely to come out of it in worse shape then when he went in. And that is something you can't argue with Mr. Cook.

As for the nature of murder, rape and theft versus patent infringement we can argue the finer points all day. But the fact of the matter is one is criminal and one is civil. They are not the same. Now I do agree with Mr. Cook on the subject of Willful Patent Infringement and how that could be seen as stealing. But even then to throw murder and rape in with it is sick.

JT
 
Originally posted by LynnBob


Not only did some forumites exhibit absolute glee at the prospect of Mr. Emerson...sorry...Mr. Emerson's lawyers contacting Mr. Rogers...but you people are still at it.....

As long as Mr. Rogers justifies his action, for doing wrong, sure I'll keep at it.

Originally posted by LynnBob
...Incredible! Stunning! Is it sport to you people? Perhaps a career change to "cock-fight" promoter might be in order for those intent on stirring the pot.

Stirring the pot? I didn't start using someone else's design and know there was a patent on it. I didn't come on here and apologize, with a little kicker at the end of all of them trying to justify my wrong doing.

It isn't a sport LynnBob. What it's called is loyalty. Just like what you are doing for Mr. Rogers, who has already admitted he was wrong but continues to post as to why it was ok for him to do it.

Originally posted by LynnBob

Some of you people take yourselves waaaaaaaay too seriously. Your collective investment in Emerson's knives is, quite often, pathetic. This sycophantic idolatry would be funny if it weren't, at the same time, so off-putting.

Hmmmmm?! Calling someone on their wrong doing is to you: pathetic, sycophantic idolatry, and off-putting?

That's fine then. I saw a wrong doing and posted it to where it needed attention bought to it. Plain and simple. Your definition of pathetic and sycophantic idolatry closely resembles what a lot of us here would define as customer loyalty.

Originally posted by LynnBob

You want to know why EKI gets hammered on this forum and others? Hmmmm? Perhaps it has more to do with the personality of some of the more vocal users...than it has to do with the quality of the knives...or with EE himself.

Perhaps it has to do a lot with other makers stealing a patented design. Wait I guess to you and JT and Mr. Rogers the term stealing is a little harsh how about I explain it a little differently but still have the same underlying message. Wait why use my words let's use these:

Originally posted by rayrogers

I thought it might be a patent infringement but since I was already doing it I wanted somebody to have to tell me. A stubborn streak, if you will.

So to you guys it isn't stealing or patent infringement it's technically called "Stubborn streaking"? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LynnBob

Let me spell it out for you all. You don't make Emerson's knives. None of you invented the wave. I'm guessing most of you don't have the creativity or knife making skills that Mr. Emerson and Mr. Rogers possess. I don't. So...stop taking ownership. All you have done (or will do) is plunk down some cash. Let Ray and Ernie who (like it or not suspects...are the only two interested parties here) hash things out.

Never claimed to make 'em or have the talent to but once Mr. Rogers comes on here, publically, and apologizes but takes it back with justifications for why it was all right for him to do it we're suppose to lay down and say what, "Ohhh that's ok even though you know you were doing wrong and could have called to make sure but kept on doing wrong.......hey you only made a handful instead of thousands so stealing a little is much better than stealing a lot...so that's ok now give us a hug"!?!?!?

Originally posted by LynnBob

I'm not trying to be harsh...oh...what the heck...sure I am. I apologized for the "small" crack I made about EE in the other thread. Now I realize that that moniker should have been hung around the neck(s) of a suspect or two.

Well you've already labeled us as pathetic and sycophant idolators so I'll take that label if that's what calling a wrong a wrong is labeled these days. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LynnBob

People...people...please....get some self-esteem for yourselves. Don't keep borrowing it from Ernie.

Put it to bed...

Murder? Get a life...and some perspective...

If you're trying to offend, come on, come up with something original. Get a life?!?!?:rolleyes:

Ross T.
 
boxen.gif
Come on guys...this is going nowhere and proving nothing. After the first few posts, this thread has turned into something that I began to avoid rather than enjoy or learn anything from. I think that we all need to tip back a cold one
pint1.gif
, take a collective deep breath, and be done with this. Ray, thanks for your comments...but IMHO, the conversation you had with Mr. Emerson was all that was required... Take care.
 
are the reason I left the forums. One would think you had your entire 401K in E Emerson Knives Inc. Reminds me of sixth graders bragging about their Dads. Give it a rest.
 
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