Another way traditionals are safer

[mp510]

There's more than a few little scars and nicks on my right index finger and knuckle. I almost always carry more than one knife- one or more are traditionals or SAKs. Then, there is also usually a beefy tactical knife clipped to my pocket. Lately it has been a Benchmade Pika, partially serrated. It's there for when I want (or need) to be able to get to the knife and use it- one handed- quickly, and put it back the same. I usually prefer my slipjoints smaller, and the larger knife is also useful if a bigger task comes up. Anyhow, not one of those little cuts or scars is from a traditional- those are usually manipulated with two hands. When I do close them one handed, It's usually easy enough to shut it without getting my fingers in the blades way. My Benchmade, like many other tactical folders is a lockback. However, unlike a Buck 110 or most other traditional folders, instead of haviong a 2-hand-required rear-lock, the Benchmades lock is up front. Closing it with one hand requires the hand to be in the blades path when I disengage the lock- not nicking my fingers (which usually happens) is a matte of good timing- getting my finger out before the blade meets it. Yes, I could close it 2 handed, but that defeats to the purpose.

 

[SilverFoxKnows]

Also, I think something else comes into play. With a slip joint, I know it doesn't lock and use it accordingly. I use it as a knife, to cut things. When I carried tacticals I was more inclined to use them for things I shouldn't have. I bought into the "hard core/ high speed" hype. Luckily, the locks held. But there was a trip to the ER waiting to happen. I think knowing a tool's limitations is the best way to avoid accidents.

And it seems the knife community at large continues to push the limitations of folders. Well, maybe not so much here but I think you get my point. I've seen a few "which is stronger?" threads lately. And the older I get the more I cringe at what some of these guys try with pocket knives. I like Jackknife's stories about his Dad using his brain instead of brute force to solve problems. If you know what you're doing you don't need to baton a folder through a log.

Frank

 

[jackknife]

A lock only helps keep the blade open under normal use with a little slip up now nad then.

That being said, I can't recall if it was on this forum or another where they were debating locks, and I told the vey sad tale of a young co-worker of mine back in the 80's. Don't read any further if you've heard this one before.

We were working in the machine shop and one of the young guys had a habit of really leaning on his Buck 110 folding hunter. He was very proud of his big lockblade knife and couldn't understand why we old guys used little slip joint pocket knives. We cautioned him many times about doing what he was doing, but it went in one ear and out the other. It was only a matter of time.

One day he was cutting a square hole in something by banging his Buck through the material and then pushing down on the handle. We told him to stop it before he got hurt, but he just scoffed at the "old guys". Well one time he was pushing down on the handle forcing the blade through the thin plastic polystyrene sheet, and it let go. Weather he just exceded the number of pounds of torque on the lock or other reason we'll never know, but it took off his index finger at the first joint, nearly took off his middle finger. They took him off to the hospital and made a nice stump for him, and he had to undergo an operation on his middle finger trying to conect the tendon and nerves again. It never really came back good, sort of numb and semi-usable. But he really trusted the lock on that knife!

I have a private theroy that locking blades like they have now are a accident waiting to happen. They build bad habits by making you careless by having a "strongest lock on the market" as some of them are hyped now.

Yo, guys, its called a folding knife for a reason!

If you are doing something so abusive that you are worried that the knife will fold up on you, GO GET A FIXED BLADE!

Even a low cost mora at 10 bucks is a better knife than the latest hyped folder with an axis, liner, frame, or any other kind of lock. It always strikes me as sad/funny/tragic when I see these posts by some young knife guy about how his high end tactical folder failed something called a "spine wack" test. They subject the folder to some sort of abusive test and then are amazed and disapointed when it folds up. I guess I just don't get it, I'm an old guy.

Maybe its a sign of the times one grew up with. I guess some of these young knife nuts buying all this junk grew up in a home in a urban suburb with no sportsmen or outdoorsmen in it. No uncles or mentors to guide them. A whole generation who has no knowledge exept for what they read in the magazines whose sole goal is to make money by selling advertising, not nessesarily print good information. And that advertising is from manufactures who want to stimulate sales by pushing the "new and better" product. Never mind that the product may very well be something our grandfathers may have looked at with a comment that "that's about as usefull as teets on a boar hog!"

Somehow generations of cowboys, freight wagon teamsters, carpenters, plumbers, and tradesmen of all sorts got by very well with stockmen, barlows, equal end jacks, sunfish, trappers, serpentine jacks, dog leg jacks, and all the rest of the slip joint patterns. They had locking blade knives, in fact John Wilkes Booth had a lockblade folding dagger on him when he was killed at Garrets barn. Funny thing though, in the 1800's lockblade folding knives were most often seen as weapons of cheap tavern thugs. In spite of the availability of them, they were rarely carried by men of main stream society. I can only wonder if they had anything called "tavern ninja's" back then?

Just as when I was growing up, they had locking blade knives. Just didn't see alot of them, and mostly they were German knives comming in just after the War ended. And in the 50's they had assisted opening knives. Were not real popular either. They were called switch blades and carried by young guys with pegged pants and duck tail haircuts. Hmm, maybe hamburger joint ninja's?

Now ya see what happens when I get up and don't have my coffee before I get on the forum? I end up ranting. Okay, I'm off to get some java.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Even a low cost mora at 10 bucks is a better knife than the latest hyped folder with an axis, liner, frame, or any other kind of lock.

Care to explain how a low cost $10 MORA is a better knife that say a Sebenza ?

Each knife style has its own strong / shortcoming but to say a $10 knife is better , is pretty absurd.

 

[Bastid]

Care to explain how a low cost $10 MORA is a better knife that say a Sebenza ?

Each knife style has its own strong / shortcoming but to say a $10 knife is better , is pretty absurd.

Nothing absurd at all if you look at the context and understand that he is saying that a fixed blade might be the best choice in some situations.

P.S. this is not the right forum for even shallow water trolling.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

sorry , I confused the Mora with being a folder , didn't realize it was a fixed blade...doh !! Honest mistake , FAR from trolling.

Accept my apology jackknife...

so much for me to learn about traditionals....but trust me I am learning.... a heck of allot from folks here.

 

[Bastid]

VERY MUCH TROLLING calling his point absurd. We do not operate like that in this subforum.

Trust me on that.

 

[jackknife]

It's okay, it's okay, Mr. Wylie, I understand how you may have missed my point.

The point I was making is that even a low cost sheath knife with a solid tang running up through the handle like on my 10 dollar carbon steel old Frosts mora, is a more secure knife under heavy use than even a very high tech folder. It's one piece of steel, thats all. There is zero moving parts and by the nature of the beast I'd rather have a low cost fixed blade than even a sebenza. Even a sebenza has to depend on a part moving over to block the blade tang. Dirt, debris, metal fatigue, wear, all could at some point cause a folder to fail.

At least with my mora, there is a tang running all the way through the wood handle. I could break or bend the carbon steel lamminated blade if I lean on it or abuse it enough, but I don't think I will be amputating any didgits with it folding up unexeptedly on me.

I'm old school. Very old school. I feel that folders are for light to medium duty only. Pocket knves if you will. Anytime you are getting into heavy duty use, I beleive a sheath knife is in order. This is where I have my disagreement with the new school "tactical" style folders, they are being touted as a heavy duty pocket tool. I think the marketing and hype are creating an accident waiting to happen. Even with a sebenza. A folder is a folder is a folder. Even very expencive ones. My dad once told me that anything with one moving part or more, sooner of later is going to have a problem. I saw first hand the bloody results of a young guy putting his faith in his knife and paying a life long price for it. It made a heck of an impression on those in the shop that day.

If I need to cut something more than I think my pocket knife will handle, I want a real cutting tool with no moving parts. I think even the old Camillus MK2 I was issued in 1967 will out preform any high tech folder in an abusive or hard use environment.

Of course your apology is accepted, sir.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

point well taken sir , and again sorry bout that , coffee first , then post from now on Agree with you 100 %. I had to google " MORA " to find out what it was.
I am 1/3 thru one of Levine's books in a serious attempt to learn more on traditional knives.

I always prefer a fixed blade when the option is there , and have of late been carrying a 3" fixed ( largest that can be concealed here legally ) as well as a Queen Mt Man lockback and small Strider PT folder.... got all my bases covered there ( well for city life anyways).

 

[kamagong]

I would love to carry a nice fixed blade. The laws here prevent that though. So I carry a modern folder to complement my stockman. Notice that I used the word complement and not supplant. Different knives have their places. All good (assuming you have a quality knife), just different.

 

[iSaur]

... instead of haviong a 2-hand-required rear-lock, the Benchmades lock is up front. Closing it with one hand requires the hand to be in the blades path when I disengage the lock- not nicking my fingers (which usually happens) is a matte of good timing- getting my finger out before the blade meets it. Yes, I could close it 2 handed, but that defeats to the purpose.

I haven't handled the Pika, so this may not apply, but my Spyderco Delica, with the lock release in the centre of the handle, is quite easy to close one-handed. I hold the knife edge-down and extend my forefinger near the end of the handle, in the path of the blade. Then I depress the release with my thumb and give the knife a little shake. The blade falls until it is stopped either by friction or by the tang hitting my finger, ending up at about the 90 degree point. Then I flip the knife over and push the blade shut with my forefinger. There is lots of margin for error - my finger can be 3/4" or more from the end of the handle and still only be hit by the unsharpened tang. The blade/handle configuration of the Pika may be different, though, so YMMV.

That said, I fully agree with SilverFox and Jackknife about locks. I have always maintained that a kid's first knife should be a slipjoint. Not only does this teach good habits, but they usually close under light enough pressure that the user is cut, not maimed.

Near where I grew up, there was a fairly busy two-lane road that narrowed to a single lane under a railway overpass. In addition, it took a sudden right/left jog at that point, so that oncoming traffic was completely invisible. We were always amazed that there were never any collisions at that spot. The consensus was that it was so dangerous that it was safe. I think of slipjoints in that way.

 

[ginshun]

I wouldn't use my $350 CRK Mnandi for anything that I wouldn't use my $60 Queen Whittler for. Frame lock...Slip joint...whatever, a knife should be used for cutting. If that is what you are using it for, and you are paying attention, chances are pretty slim that you will be cutting yourself, regardless of what type of mechnism your knife uses to stay open.

 

[James Y]

I agree that a lot of people coming up today get way too much into the "My folder has to be able to support a Humvee at its pivot point, otherwise it's a POS."

I do own and like many of the tacticals, but I've always looked at them as folding knives, not pry bars or hatchets. And I carry a Sebenza almost every day, but even that, I've always viewed its integral lock as a safety feature, not a device that automatically transforms it into a fixed blade.

But I also carry a Case slipjoint and an Executive SAK every day, and have been using them for most of my tasks lately. I've only recently become reacquainted with carrying the traditional patterns again after a decade of immersion in world of tactical folders. I find a timeless beauty in the slipjoint patterns, not to mention a long-term durability that seems to exceed many or most of the modern tacticals for knife-related use.

When I was growing up, lots of boys still carried some kind of slipjoint pocketknife. Sometimes we would show each other at school (1970s). And at none of those times were those knives considered as weapons. Even my typing teacher showed me his Buck Cadet; thus was I introduced to the Buck Knives brand.

So I carry my Sebenza for when I need my knife one-handed, which does happen on occasion. It doesn't weigh me down or get in the way when clipped to my pocket. But for normal cutting, out comes the stockman. It's low-key, highly efficient, and gives me a good feeling when I bring it out and use it. The stockman will fail every spine whack test known to man, even a light one.

My worst cuts have come from closing certain larger tactical folders, esp. those with longer, heavier blades, one-handed. Got a nasty one from my SOG Pentagon Elite II, as it snaps shut lightning-fast, and the tip of my middle finger was ever-so-slightly in the blade path. Luckily, nothing permanent, but it could have been bad by the weight and speed of that blade alone. The worst slipjoint cut due to blade closure I received was once when I was closing my then-new Case canoe...again, user error. My ring finger had been carelessly resting in the blade path.

I think a lot of the "indestructible tactical" mentality is merely a reflection of the times. In the past few years, I've noticed an increase in the number of people trying to project the image of being bigger, badder, louder, tougher, outside of the world of knives. I won't point to what I think the root causes of that are, only that there seems to be a connection.

Old-timers like my dad/uncles used the heck out of their pocketknives, to make a living, almost certainly more than many (most?) modern-day knife testers. And it was really no big deal to them, and aside from getting minor cuts here and there, as will happen to pretty much any knife user at one time or other, the lack of a blade lock was never a factor for them.
Jim