Another ZDP Sharpening Thread

[cziv]

Hey guys! I purchased a new Endura 4 and was talked into getting the ZDP-189. I've done a lot of Googling about this steel. I don't use my folders like a mad man so I'm thinking the wise move would have been the VG-10 which I know and love. I figured what the heck try something new and have serious second thoughts but it's on it's way.

First off, My Spyderco Military in S30V has only required a few passes on a DMT x-fine stone, finishing on the 8x3" Syderco UF stone and light stropping. It will whittle hair.

This ZDP sounds like a different animal.

My usual protocol is to maintain my new folders with a strop only and this last almost forever if stropped lightly and in the case of my Hinderer blades, has kept them full length, paper slicing sharp, for years!

I don't know if stropping this ZDP will maintain the factory edge or not. As I said I'm not hard on my folders.

This is my sharpening equipment.

DMT Coarse, Fine, X-Fine bench stones
Spydrco UF bench stone
DMT Magna Guide with Diafolds coarse through XX-fine
Spyderco SharpMaker with gray & white rods only
Two leather strops with HA 21 carat 1 micron one one and 21 carat .5 micron on the other
3 balsa strops loaded with 6, 3, 1 micron dia-paste
black, green & white Bark river compounds (usually rubbed on legal stationary cardboard)

I'd like any suggestions on required upkeep, and for an edge that has become too dull for the strops to bring back.

Thanks!

 

[Komitadjie]

Well, I've got the Caly-3 with the laminate 420SST/ZDP blade, and I've only sharpened that ONCE since I've had it. It hasn't done HEAVY work, it's my work-pants knife, but occasional stropping as been more than enough to keep it in good shape, usually I just run it across the belts when I'm stropping something else on the Kalamazoo. The initial sharpening was done with the EdgePro and stock stones, followed by Chosera stones in 5K and 8K, then stropping on leather with 1u Boron Carbide and .5u Chromium Oxide (my usual sharpening method for good knives).

You'll be EASILY able to sharpen it with your existing hardware, I find it somewhat easier to work with than S30V. Just one schmoe's oppinion, though.

 

[cziv]

Well, I've got the Caly-3 with the laminate 420SST/ZDP blade, and I've only sharpened that ONCE since I've had it. It hasn't done HEAVY work, it's my work-pants knife, but occasional stropping as been more than enough to keep it in good shape, usually I just run it across the belts when I'm stropping something else on the Kalamazoo. The initial sharpening was done with the EdgePro and stock stones, followed by Chosera stones in 5K and 8K, then stropping on leather with 1u Boron Carbide and .5u Chromium Oxide (my usual sharpening method for good knives).

You'll be EASILY able to sharpen it with your existing hardware, I find it somewhat easier to work with than S30V. Just one schmoe's oppinion, though.

I read a guy's opinion in the Spyderco forum that said the same thing about it being as easy or easier than S30V, just to use light strokes to avoid sharpening chips. If it arrive really sharp, I just use my balsa strops loaded with the dia-pastes. Thanks for the post.

 

[clayallison]

I've had the chance to sharpen a lot of ZDP-189 knives and also to maintain a few - my experience parallels Komitadjie's. Mostly all I ever have to do is strop the blade from time to time. I agree about light pressure; using heavy pressure can cause chipping.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I experimented put diff edge geometries on my zdp-189 cf stretch, dragonfly, ladybug. cf lost 2.5mm height (from slice a can of anchovies into 2 pieces and chops dry woods), dragonfly lost 3mm tip (pull thru big palm fronds). Geometry I like best is: zero grind, convex edge 20*-40* depend on function. I also tried on VG-10 - nice balance steel - knives however zdp is a notch above vg-10.

*=inclusive angle.
chop actions: 40*-45* v or convex edge, 30*-38* micro chip, below 30* big chip.
slice/push/pull actions: 28*-32* very stable (could micro chip when fast cut impact on hard stuff)
laser: 18*-20* will slice protein and fruit like nothing there.

Here is a sharpening sequence that you could try for your endura-zdp:

1) create a clean 30* bevel - dmt c+f+ef lead+trail strokes. 30* is factory edge however I don't think the edge is clean.
2) spyderco uf lead+trail medium pressure - intended to raise a burr or wire.
3) 1um balsa trail until polish bevel.
4) dmt ef edge-lead very gentle 2 alternate-strokes per side at slight raise angle (may be + 2-3* per side, yeah don't have to be that exact). Just check to make sure that burr/wire is gone by doing this.
5) combine 0.5 diamond + 0.5 Cr203 on balsa edge-trail gentle 5 strokes per side. Leather has too much give/flex, too tricky and likely convex the edge too much. btw - use just a tiny smear of Cr2O3, this stuff seem to duplicate itseft making verything green.
6) strop on plain leather at 40* (to be sure, 20* per side) for 10-20 light strokes per side.

If you try, please post your sequence & result.

 

[Jason B.]

Use waterstones and life will be easy with that steel.

 

[cziv]

Use waterstones and life will be easy with that steel.

I know that's your choise J, ut I'm not dumping anymore money into sharpening gear. Especially for an $80 folder - but thanks man!

 

[cziv]

I experimented put diff edge geometries on my zdp-189 cf stretch, dragonfly, ladybug. cf lost 2.5mm height (from slice a can of anchovies into 2 pieces and chops dry woods), dragonfly lost 3mm tip (pull thru big palm fronds). Geometry I like best is: zero grind, convex edge 20*-40* depend on function. I also tried on VG-10 - nice balance steel - knives however zdp is a notch above vg-10.

*=inclusive angle.
chop actions: 40*-45* v or convex edge, 30*-38* micro chip, below 30* big chip.
slice/push/pull actions: 28*-32* very stable (could micro chip when fast cut impact on hard stuff)
laser: 18*-20* will slice protein and fruit like nothing there.

Here is a sharpening sequence that you could try for your endura-zdp:

1) create a clean 30* bevel - dmt c+f+ef lead+trail strokes. 30* is factory edge however I don't think the edge is clean.
2) spyderco uf lead+trail medium pressure - intended to raise a burr or wire.
3) 1um balsa trail until polish bevel.
4) dmt ef edge-lead very gentle 2 alternate-strokes per side at slight raise angle (may be + 2-3* per side, yeah don't have to be that exact). Just check to make sure that burr/wire is gone by doing this.
5) combine 0.5 diamond + 0.5 Cr203 on balsa edge-trail gentle 5 strokes per side. Leather has too much give/flex, too tricky and likely convex the edge too much. btw - use just a tiny smear of Cr2O3, this stuff seem to duplicate itseft making verything green.
6) strop on plain leather at 40* (to be sure, 20* per side) for 10-20 light strokes per side.

If you try, please post your sequence & result.

I will use your protocol to clean up factory edge first near 30* and then shoot to microbevel at 40* +/- with Sharp Maker or close to 40* with bench stone by clipping the knife to a magna guide for even edge at 40* plus or minus. Sounds intriguing.

Thanks for the ideas!

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

I will use your protocol to clean up factory edge first near 30* and then shoot to microbevel at 40* +/- with Sharp Maker or close to 40* with bench stone by clipping the knife to a magna guide for even edge at 40* plus or minus. Sounds intriguing.

From my experience, steps 4-6 were where I no longer have sharpening chippage and produce very sharp edge regardless of angle acute-to-obtuse. Could you try freehand steps 4-6 at 30* first ) humor a try, I guess)? See how that goes before micro-bevel 40* with sharpmaker afterward?

my cf stretch pic

 

[sodak]

I have a ton of knives in ZDP, and I think people make entirely too much out of it. It doesn't tend to burr nearly as much as other "super" steels (S30V comes immediately to mind), and in my experience sharpens easily with your listed equipment. Follow your usual protocol, and if it doesn't work, adjust. It does hold that edge quite a bit longer than VG10, and IMO, sharpens up quickly and easily. I agree with keeping the strokes light, I've never had a chipping problem.

I usually go with DMT green unless it's really dull, and then the new XXfine (beige?), and then Spyderco ceramic med and fine. That gives me a killer edge.

Kudos to you for trying something new!

 

[Gunsnknives]

I have the same Endura in ZDP and it's a great blade! If you are used to maintaining your blades on a strop, you should be fine using your usual protocol. ZDP is just a hair more fussy than other steels, but it is still a steel that can be sharpened like any other steel.

I may recommend smoothing out the factory bevel a bit and maintain the edge with your strops. That's it. It'll hold a fine edge for a long time and it'll take a very narrow bevel. I have mine at 20 deg. inclusive and use it as a 3.75" exacto knife...but no hard use!

 

[cziv]

I usually go with DMT green unless it's really dull, and then the new XXfine (beige?), and then Spyderco ceramic med and fine. That gives me a killer edge.

Kudos to you for trying something new!

Thanks Sodak. I have an XX-fine tan dia-fold that would work nicely for touching up but it doesn't seem right to go backwards to Spyderco gray & white after the DMT xx-fine.

That's the XXF dia-fold at 3 microns first - to the gray rod at 15 microns and finishing with the white at 6 microns?

Did you maybe mean to use these in reverse? These numbers are published from DMT and Sal Glesser.

 

[cziv]

I have the same Endura in ZDP and it's a great blade! If you are used to maintaining your blades on a strop, you should be fine using your usual protocol. ZDP is just a hair more fussy than other steels, but it is still a steel that can be sharpened like any other steel.

I may recommend smoothing out the factory bevel a bit and maintain the edge with your strops. That's it. It'll hold a fine edge for a long time and it'll take a very narrow bevel. I have mine at 20 deg. inclusive and use it as a 3.75" exacto knife...but no hard use!

Why oh why did I let myself buy this before researching the steel. I have no use for some crazy steel that requires all of this attention to use it. VG-10 is wonderful stuff. May be going from the mailbox to the exchange,

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Why oh why did I let myself buy this before researching the steel. I have no use for some crazy steel that requires all of this attention to use it. VG-10 is wonderful stuff. May be going from the mailbox to the exchange,

:yawn: on it, zdp will get better with time + a dash of skills. S30v is harder to tame.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Thanks Sodak. I have an XX-fine tan dia-fold that would work nicely for touching up but it doesn't seem right to go backwards to Spyderco gray & white after the DMT xx-fine.

That's the XXF dia-fold at 3 microns first - to the gray rod at 15 microns and finishing with the white at 6 microns?

Did you maybe mean to use these in reverse? These numbers are published from DMT and Sal Glesser.

This progression is right - UF ceramic can/mostly be (lapped) much finer than dmt EEF, it cuts & burnishes to yield a nice polish edge. With light touches, UF benchstone can out polish 1um diamond lapping.

 

[cziv]

This progression is right - UF ceramic can/mostly be (lapped) much finer than dmt EEF, it cuts & burnishes to yield a nice polish edge. With light touches, UF benchstone can out polish 1um diamond lapping.

I was hoping to keep this knife sharp by frequent stropping on balsa and sometimes the *x#' UF Spyderco bench stone. I figured to match the factory edge and forgo re-profiles other than possibly a micro-bevel at 40*

 

[Komitadjie]

I think 'ya might be making a BIT much out of this one, Cziv.

Just sharpen it up like any other blade using a light pressure, to whatever angle you'd like to try out (I'd go with a 30* primary, 40* micro for easy Sharpmaker touch-ups), and see how it works out for you. I've had darn good luck with mine, with no more trouble caring for it than any other knife. Definitely easier than S30V. Just give it a shot and see what you think, I'm fairly sure you're going to be impressed. VG10 is a darn good steel, but the ZDP IS considerably superior.

 

[cziv]

I think 'ya might be making a BIT much out of this one, Cziv.

Just sharpen it up like any other blade using a light pressure, to whatever angle you'd like to try out (I'd go with a 30* primary, 40* micro for easy Sharpmaker touch-ups), and see how it works out for you. I've had darn good luck with mine, with no more trouble caring for it than any other knife. Definitely easier than S30V. Just give it a shot and see what you think, I'm fairly sure you're going to be impressed. VG10 is a darn good steel, but the ZDP IS considerably superior.

Yes, I always like to fuss about steels, sharpening techniques etc.. it's a manifestation of my knife addiction but may not be part of yours. Right now I'm fussing about the torque required for tightening screws on a new Sebenza I bought - even though it operates perfectly!

 

[cziv]

Endura 4 arrived. Nobody home today but me so all of my sharpening kit was out and many blades had been touched up from one degree to another.

I sharpied the blade and put it on the Sharpmaker 30* setting which revealed it was in and out of the 30* setting. Sometimes wiping it off and a little further down, missing it completely and smudges here and there. It was very close to being a perfect 30* bevel from Spyderco.

I thought about what I should do and proceeded to give it a clean 30* bevel as a starter. I spent about an hr. on the Sharpmaker 30* setting and took off all of the sharpy and gave it a perfect bevel. This took both gray & white flats.

Next I took it to the Spyderco UF bench stone and worked up a burr and flipped it over - this took very little time, less than 5 minutes and the edge looked far more refined than when I started. Rather than play flip the burr, I lightly drew the blade across the corner of a bit of wood - that finished the stones removing it completely and leaving a chip free apex.

I stropped it 10 light passes on balsa strops, loaded with 6,3 & 1 micron dia-paste. Took it to a leather strop loaded with .5 micron 21 carat HA spray. Just a 1/2 dozen super light passes and finished on the Knives Plus pre-loaded strop.

The knife is now razor sharp at 30 degrees and slices yellow pages cleanly w/o any snags. Since this will be a light duty knife, I may leave it at 30* which I've read is not too thin for this steel.

It was no harder than D2, S30V, CTS-XHP, DT20CV to sharpen, so much ado about nothing. If I wanted a mirror edge I'd take it to the DMT stones all the way to xx-fine, but it has a nice sturdy appearance and a wicked gleam - looks good plus it cuts very nicely.

Thanks for all of your comments, it was fun! :thumbup:

 

[sodak]

Thanks Sodak. I have an XX-fine tan dia-fold that would work nicely for touching up but it doesn't seem right to go backwards to Spyderco gray & white after the DMT xx-fine.

That's the XXF dia-fold at 3 microns first - to the gray rod at 15 microns and finishing with the white at 6 microns?

Did you maybe mean to use these in reverse? These numbers are published from DMT and Sal Glesser.

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, but congrats on getting it and liking it! I hane an Endura 3 in ZDP with a blue handle that I like very much!

I usually go from DMT to ceramics, perhaps I have that wrong, I always though that the ceramics were more fine, guess I need to read the charts better! I save my UF for the staight razors, I usually finish on the fine, I'm talking strictly benchstones here, no rods. I like the quality and longevity of ZDP edges.