Antique George Wostenholm pocket knife-photos

[stoback]

I could use some help with some details, rarity and possible customization of a George Wostenholm pocket knife. It was likely purchased in the early 1940’s by my great-grandfather. Possibly in NYC. Those are his initials HMS on the knife. The large blade reads “IXL George Wostenholm Sheffield”. The small blade reads “I *XL George Wosten” and on the back of the file it says “Wostenholm & son” with possibly the letters GEO at the start. There are 2 blades, a scissors and a file. It’s white gold and there are 5 real diamonds that looks at 1/3rd carat each. Is it possible this was custom ordered without sides and the gold and diamonds added later? He was a jeweler by trade and likely had contacts that could do this work. I have seen other Wostenholm knives on the internet but nothing like this. Thank you.

https://imgur.com/a/hNS9Mhi

https://imgur.com/a/1AaIp9H

https://imgur.com/wZ1wWjv

https://imgur.com/4JLvBvX

https://imgur.com/a/S4RJAXF

https://imgur.com/a/uVtDHXu

 

[glennbad]

Many of those types of knives were sold as "guts", and then jewelry manufacturers would add fancy covers, gold plating, etc.

Not entirely sure if this one was like that, but it's quite possible.

BTW, that's a wonderful knife, and a great memento of your GGF, thank you for sharing it!

 

[afishhunter]

Many of those types of knives were sold as "guts", and then jewelry manufacturers would add fancy covers, gold plating, etc.

This is the most likely scenario. Probably a genuine "One Of A Kind".
An ligitemate auction house that deals in antique jewlery(?) such as Southerbe's (spelling?) might be able to give you an insrance value, or auction range value.

I'm far from an "expert" but my guess is the greatest value will be for the materials used.
That it is a rare knife pattern from a well respected cutlery firm will likely mean little to nothing value wise.

Since you Great Grandfather was a jewler by trade, it could very well be he made the covers.
Why pay a competitor to do what he could do?

He could also use it as an example of his work when a customer came to him for a custom piece.

A beautiful knife. And, as Glenn said above, a great memento of your great grandfather.

Curious ... did you ever meet him?
I knew my maternal great grandfather (1892-1974). He passed when I was 19.
I was not his first great grandchild. (I was my grandparent's first grandkid.) My maternal grandmother had 8 elder siblings. She was the youngest of his 9 that survived childhood.
I believe he had at least 6 ... greats before me. No idea how many great-greats he had.

 

[Jack Black]

Very interesting I agree with what has been said. A Wostenholm Sleeveboard Lobster, with a Sheffield-style nail-file, a common pattern in Sheffield, in the past, though not with the gold and diamonds! Here's an unusual one with markings for both Wostenholm, and their long-term rival Joseph Rodgers

 

[stoback]

This is the most likely scenario. Probably a genuine "One Of A Kind".
An ligitemate auction house that deals in antique jewlery(?) such as Southerbe's (spelling?) might be able to give you an insrance value, or auction range value.

I'm far from an "expert" but my guess is the greatest value will be for the materials used.
That it is a rare knife pattern from a well respected cutlery firm will likely mean little to nothing value wise.

Since you Great Grandfather was a jewler by trade, it could very well be he made the covers.
Why pay a competitor to do what he could do?

He could also use it as an example of his work when a customer came to him for a custom piece.

A beautiful knife. And, as Glenn said above, a great memento of your great grandfather.

Curious ... did you ever meet him?
I knew my maternal great grandfather (1892-1974). He passed when I was 19.
I was not his first great grandchild. (I was my grandparent's first grandkid.) My maternal grandmother had 8 elder siblings. She was the youngest of his 9 that survived childhood.
I believe he had at least 6 ... greats before me. No idea how many great-greats he had.

Thank you for the info. My g-grandfather started his own costume jewelry biz so I doubt he did the work but his shop was on 5th Ave in NYC so he had plenty of neighbors who could have done the work. He died young in 1947 so I never met him. The knife went to his second oldest daughter, my grandmother, then to me. I wonder how big a spend this was for him at the time. I don't think he was every super wealthy and his money must have some to him in the last 5 years of his life. He was from Romanian immigrant parents so he did not have any extra money to buy this in his youth. I imagine this would have been a substantial purchase for him just coming off the great depression.

 

[stoback]

Very interesting I agree with what has been said. A Wostenholm Sleeveboard Lobster, with a Sheffield-style nail-file, a common pattern in Sheffield, in the past, though not with the gold and diamonds! Here's an unusual one with markings for both Wostenholm, and their long-term rival Joseph Rodgers

View attachment 2496689View attachment 2496692View attachment 2496695View attachment 2496697View attachment 2496701

Ahh...great. So it does say GEO before Wostenholm and son on the back of the file. Its really worn there. Thank you.

 

[Will Power]

Very interesting piece and looks like something your ancestor had commissioned for himself as a special present- most knife collectors can relate to that

I notice the engraved monogram is in Art Deco style which was very popular in the US in the 1920s/30s but also later, it's been done with great skill as engraving is a demanding vocation. Does the gold have any assay hallmarks which could also include a date letter? Could it be Platinum rather than White Gold? This was popular in that era but unlike Gold it's a very hard metal that stands up to wear.

Thanks, Will

 

[stoback]

Very interesting piece and looks like something your ancestor had commissioned for himself as a special present- most knife collectors can relate to that

I notice the engraved monogram is in Art Deco style which was very popular in the US in the 1920s/30s but also later, it's been done with great skill as engraving is a demanding vocation. Does the gold have any assay hallmarks which could also include a date letter? Could it be Platinum rather than White Gold? This was popular in that era but unlike Gold it's a very hard metal that stands up to wear.

Thanks, Will

Hi Will, where would I look on the handles for an assay hallmark? Nothing obvious on the exterior. Would they need to be popped off? Did jewelers often mark their work? This could be platinum as I took it to a jeweler so time back and I am going by memory that its white gold (but my memory is getting worse ). I greatly appreciate this forum. I was very into knives in youth and that seems to have slipped away.

 

[Jack Black]

Ahh...great. So it does say GEO before Wostenholm and son on the back of the file. Its really worn there. Thank you.

A pleasure, interesting piece

 

[ephsea]

Beautiful knife, made most special the fact that it was your Grandfather's! I'll echo what other have said, and try to add a little if I can. Certainly this did not leave the Wostenholm factory this way, the scales are certainly built by a jeweler. The engraving and skill level of the bezel setting is a dead giveaway. If the hallmark or assay is not visible on the inside of the nicks then I would guess there isn't one.
Warmer diamonds were worth almost nothing back then, but have recently gained much market value ( I really love them). I recommend a *professional* appraisal, NOT a local jeweler but a jewelry appraiser by trade. Keep or sell, if only for insurance reasons, this item needs an appraisal. I can certainly point you in the right direction if you need.
As to the metal, l would imagine the scales are only plated with precious metal, if they were gold or platinum all the way through (even stamped and hollow inside) the knife would be really heavy, and if gold very weak (even 10k would not be recommended for such use).
Thanks for sharing this with us! Super-gentlemanly.

 

[stoback]

Beautiful knife, made most special the fact that it was your Grandfather's! I'll echo what other have said, and try to add a little if I can. Certainly this did not leave the Wostenholm factory this way, the scales are certainly built by a jeweler. The engraving and skill level of the bezel setting is a dead giveaway. If the hallmark or assay is not visible on the inside of the nicks then I would guess there isn't one.
Warmer diamonds were worth almost nothing back then, but have recently gained much market value ( I really love them). I recommend a *professional* appraisal, NOT a local jeweler but a jewelry appraiser by trade. Keep or sell, if only for insurance reasons, this item needs an appraisal. I can certainly point you in the right direction if you need.
As to the metal, l would imagine the scales are only plated with precious metal, if they were gold or platinum all the way through (even stamped and hollow inside) the knife would be really heavy, and if gold very weak (even 10k would not be recommended for such use).
Thanks for sharing this with us! Super-gentlemanly.

Hi ephsea, I would take a recommendation for an appraisal. Its not currently insured. I live in Raleigh NC. Also I think the scales might be solid as its quite heavy. Also any suggestions from the group on cleaning it. I was thinking q-tip and WD40?

 

[ephsea]

Hi ephsea, I would take a recommendation for an appraisal. Its not currently insured. I live in Raleigh NC. Also I think the scales might be solid as its quite heavy. Also any suggestions from the group on cleaning it. I was thinking q-tip and WD40?

Please please do not clean it with WD40, or at all. The appraiser will do that properly to ensure no damage to the diamonds . Although it appears to be a functional knife, and I do love users, I think this is now a piece of history/heirloom. I'll send you over a couple appraiser's info via. email or pm as that's not really appropriate for forum posting. You can email me personally if you like, it's my username at g mail dot com. I would love to know what the appraiser says about the scale composition.

 

[Will Power]

Wise advice from ephsea . An independent assessment is useful, not somebody with solely a commercial motivation. Hallmarks vary enormously around the world, some have dates, makers, place of assay and carat of gold/purity of metals. 9, 14, 18, 22 ct being the usual or they are shown as % .375 for 9 ct. They WOULD normally be on the exterior of the metal but could be inside but this would demand dismantling the piece-not recommended-might be visible on the inside depending on how it's attached to the liners of the knife.

ephsea also makes a valid point about weight: Gold is really dense metal-like Lead is-pick up a 100g bar of bullion and it feels very weighty for its size, and even low carat Gold is really soft material and wears or damages fast-old jewellery can show this for instance. Don't know about Platinum, not handled much of it but it's hard but likely dense too and expensive! Items such as this might be plated for durability or use rolled gold, a thin layer was pressed onto base metal. My Ma had a Gold bangle that was Gold on the outside and copper cored inside for durability and strength.

Whatever, you have a fine interesting pice with connexion to your ancestors, hugely desirable and valuable in itself.

Thanks, Will

 

[lambertiana]

ephsea also makes a valid point about weight: Gold is really dense metal-like Lead is-pick up a 100g bar of bullion and it feels very weighty for its size, and even low carat Gold is really soft material and wears or damages fast-old jewellery can show this for instance. Don't know about Platinum, not handled much of it but it's hard but likely dense too and expensive! Items such as this might be plated for durability or use rolled gold, a thin layer was pressed onto base metal. My Ma had a Gold bangle that was Gold on the outside and copper cored inside for durability and strength.

Thanks, Will

Gold is significantly denser than lead. Lead is 11.4 g/cc, pure gold is 19.3. Of course, most gold items are alloyed, so the final density of jewelry will depend on what the alloy is. Copper is only 8.96. I always get a kick out of movies that show people robbing a vault and carrying away a duffle bag full of gold bars. You would need a forklift to pick up that much gold.

By comparison, platinum is 21.4, and is hard enough that it does not need to be alloyed. Platinum jewelry is typically 85-95% Pt (20-22.8 ct). I once looked at a solid platinum Rolex, and it was significantly heavier than the equivalent solid gold Rolexes that I have handled.

Another fun one is mercury, density 13.5. I have handled 500 mL plastic bottles of mercury, and it is very interesting sloshing around something that heavy.

 

[Will Power]

L lambertiana Thanks for the extra info yes it's comic seeing people lugging suitcases around full of bullion in films.

Now you've reminded me of a childhood event- my grandfather's antique barometer/thermometer was a column type and one winter day it burst open- it was in some kind of rubber 'bladder' that must have persished- as a child I was totally fascinated by the way the Mercury ran all over the floor and yet, I was told , was a metal! I doubted it...don't know how all the toxic stuff got collected up, magnets? But ever since I've loved that type of barometer

 

[lambertiana]

L lambertiana Thanks for the extra info yes it's comic seeing people lugging suitcases around full of bullion in films.

Now you've reminded me of a childhood event- my grandfather's antique barometer/thermometer was a column type and one winter day it burst open- it was in some kind of rubber 'bladder' that must have persished- as a child I was totally fascinated by the way the Mercury ran all over the floor and yet, I was told , was a metal! I doubted it...don't know how all the toxic stuff got collected up, magnets? But ever since I've loved that type of barometer

Mercury is a pain to clean up when it spills onto the floor because it splatters into beads of all different sizes that skitter around seemingly under their own power as you try to clean them up. Mercury is non magnetic, if it were it would be a lot easier to clean up.

When I was in high school we would put a bead of mercury in the pencil slot on top of our desk and bat it back and forth with a pencil during class. One time I put a pencil in a small cup, filled the cup with mercury, and then froze it with liquid nitrogen to make a small mercury hammer.

Metallic mercury isn't as toxic as you would believe if you listen to all the hype. I have had mercury/silver amalgam fillings in my mouth for 50 years, and look how I turned out Mercury salts are a different story. Of course, 175 years ago one of the most popular medicines to give people for a wide variety of ailments was calomel, which is mercurous chloride. And the phrase "mad as a hatter" comes for the old practice of using mercurous nitrate to make felt for hats; the effects of that neurotoxin passed into common lore.