Antique Sword Display and Lecture

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

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I went to a Scottish society meeting tonight, where a younger new member was going to bring his collection of antique Scottish swords to display and discuss with the group.

As he was setting up, I walked over to see what he had.
He had laid out three swords. He asked me if I wanted to hold a real antique claymore, and handed me a rustic longsword of approx 30-32" blade length ( short longsword?). The massive handle was one piece and crudely forged/stamped/cast from solid iron. The handle had to weigh 8-10 pounds. The blade was plain 1/8" mild steel, and did not appear to be hardened. It was covered with file marks, and was the worst balanced sword I ever held. The blade was set in a large slot in the cross guard, and epoxied in place with JB weld. There was no tang peened on the pommel, so I think the blade only went in a few inches. He proceeds to tell me it was found on a battlefield in Scotland, and was over 400 years old.
Next ,he hands me "Real" broadsword, from Culloden. It is a 26-28" parade style basket hilt with a stamped steel basket and a Pakistani blade. There is a crude dragon and some numbers chiseled into the blade. The pommel was held on with a hex nut. He says it was found on Culloden battlefield, making it over 350 years old ( the battle was only 265 years ago).
Finally he hands me a Dress Officers sword from the 7th battalion of the ........
It is a military style sword, in a plain steel scabbard. The steel handle is rattling all over the place, and looks cheap. I draw the sword to see a chrome plated blade with all sorts of decorative etching and writing on it. It is a poor fit for the handle, and the pair does not match at all. The handle ,on closer inspection, has plastic "rayskin" painted black.
About then, the society president comes over and says, "So, I see you have met Stacy." The sword guy says, "No", and I am introduced to him, with the explanation that I am a locally well known bladesmith and sword maker. He is told that I have done several presentations to the local societies, and even forged a sword from scratch as a demo at the Highland Games. The fellow, says, "Oh, then you know how rare and valuable these swords are, and that no one today can match the quality of the old swords - as the craftsmanship and skill was lost long ago." I smiled, excused myself, and walked away. I soon made my apologies, saying I had forgotten an appointment , and left. If I had stayed, I am sure I would have been asked to comment on the swords during the talk, and it would have gotten ugly.
I truly believe all three swords can be bought on ebay for $100 total.
 
Some people buy trash and end up with treasures. Most people buy trash and end up with trash. It was decent of you to walk away like you did and not ruin this kid's whole night.
 
It sounds as if he was so indicrinated with his own fantasy, he would not have accepted the truth even if you had told him his swords were fakes, and from what you said, bad ones at that. I think you were smart to walk out, there was nothing to be gained by speaking out in that settting.
 
David Stifle said:
It sounds as if he was so indicrinated with his own fantasy, he would not have accepted the truth even if you had told him his swords were fakes, and from what you said, bad ones at that. I think you were smart to walk out, there was nothing to be gained by speaking out in that settting.
Click to expand...

That is unfortunately a universal truth. We hate to learn that we are wrong, especially after we are invested in the lie. It is all part of the price most collectors pay for their education. In due time the kid will learn that he has been dealing with an unscrupulous dealer and seek out better agents. At least he has an interest in history and pointy objects, which is more than most ever develop. Getting burned on a couple of "swords" is a great and worthwhile investment.

n2s
 
My only concern about the approach used is that it exemplifies how misinformation is allowed to spread. I know it's a poor corollary, but many people pass along misinformation on the Internet all the time... and my family is as guilty of that as anyone. When I see my mother, for example, forwarding dire warnings of bogus virus threats or ridiculous stories about candy canes being religious symbols that were misinterpretted, I always respond (politely but unequivocably) that the story is a hoax, and point her to the source of that information. I feel it is my obligation to do so, as I hope it helps her spot the BS before she propogates it, thereby enhancing her credibility.

I don't wish to assert that it is our responsibility to train every eBay shopper about the crap they buy, nor even that it was Stacy's responsibility to give this kid the information that his swords were crap. If it had been me, I would have simply asked him some leading questions that would have let him understand what I looked for and saw that made me skeptical. No bald assertions of fakery... just questions that he would understand indicated there were problems with his statements of provenance.

In the end, if he chose to delude himself and attempted to deceive others, it would be a clearly conscious decision on his part... and one that would embolden me to correct such misinformation when it came up again.

But that's just me. I guess I worry too much that if we let misinformation spreach unchecked, we are in part responsible for its spread.
 
tryppyr said:
My only concern about the approach used is that it exemplifies how misinformation is allowed to spread. I know it's a poor corollary, but many people pass along misinformation on the Internet all the time... and my family is as guilty of that as anyone. When I see my mother, for example, forwarding dire warnings of bogus virus threats or ridiculous stories about candy canes being religious symbols that were misinterpretted, I always respond (politely but unequivocably) that the story is a hoax, and point her to the source of that information. I feel it is my obligation to do so, as I hope it helps her spot the BS before she propogates it, thereby enhancing her credibility.

I don't wish to assert that it is our responsibility to train every eBay shopper about the crap they buy, nor even that it was Stacy's responsibility to give this kid the information that his swords were crap. If it had been me, I would have simply asked him some leading questions that would have let him understand what I looked for and saw that made me skeptical. No bald assertions of fakery... just questions that he would understand indicated there were problems with his statements of provenance.

In the end, if he chose to delude himself and attempted to deceive others, it would be a clearly conscious decision on his part... and one that would embolden me to correct such misinformation when it came up again.

But that's just me. I guess I worry too much that if we let misinformation spreach unchecked, we are in part responsible for its spread.
Click to expand...

I would have spoken up, maybe I will change his mind maybe I won't, but maybe I could prevent him from fooling a "more innocent" mind as it pertains to the subject, I just can't let that kind of delusion stand. It is to destructive to what I love so much and have worked hard to learn about.

Please pardon this statment Stacey, as I really mean no offense, but this situation reminded me about the thread a few weeks ago about knifemaking questions on this forum and the older makers "walking away" because of those questions.
 
Had it been a different setting, and he was just showing off his swords, I would have spoken up.
Since he was the program presenter, and it was his show, I would have seemed an ass to speak up. I am sure most people there could tell the difference anyway. In some way, my absence may have said something.
At the proper time and place, I will talk with the lad, but doubt he will receive anything I say positively.
As David said, many people get so involved with their fantasy that they will resist all attempts to change it....even the truth.
 
Hi Stacy,
You have some real class holding your comments.
It would be so tempting to say something.
:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Stacy your story reminded me of this FAIL !!! Of course, this one can be purchased for $45 bucks so its really a deal.

[video=youtube;ci_5JxXdU04]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci_5JxXdU04[/video]
 
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Kind of weird that he wouldn't even get the dates right. Even if he was clueless about the blades it seems like if you're going to be presenting on a subject the least you can do is hit wikipedia or some other source for the raw info and keep dates in mind.
It sounds like you took the best option in departing quietly. Nothing really to be gained by confronting him then and there, no matter how politely you did it.
 
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