Antler handles illegal????

hillbillychuck

hillbillychuck

Joined
Jan 24, 2001
Messages
137
Hey Y'all,

I was in the local pro shop today gittin' a new string put on my bow, and I had brought a few knives to show to them fellas. We are standin' around talking about knives and bows and the game warden comes in and sees my knives laying on this table and he says, "Did you know that its illegal in NC to sell wild animal parts like antler or anything that is made from a wild animal part?" And I was like, ":eek:"

I got to talking to him and he explained the law to me and got out his law book and showed me where it said that in there. I asked him how they could have all of those antler handled knives at the SE Custom knife show in Winston-Salem, and he said he didn't know about that, cause that wasn't his jurisdiction. He said I could give the knives away, but that I couldn't sell or trade them. I asked him if I had a bill of sale from out of state if it wouldn't be ok then and he said that I could buy them from out of state and possess them but that I couldn't resell them in NC or anything made from them. He also said that if it was illegal to buy them in the other state where I bought them and I then brought them back to NC that would be transporting across state lines and would go to federal court.

Has anyone else had to deal with anything like this? This really sucks!!! He said I might be able to do it if I got a taxidermist liscence and kept a logbook of where the antler was purchased from, but I really don't want to get into all that. If I wanted that kind of hassle I would start my own gun shop:rolleyes:

Thanks for listening to the rant.

HillbillyChuck
 
Welcome to the world Chuck. I think most knife makers that use antler or Ivory or bone have either run into it themselves or know people who have. Unless using something banned by the feds like Ivory, it varies a lot from state to state. Even then the laws are damned grey in a lot of cases. My best advice is to call the Game people in the state you want to sell them in. Always ask for the cite and look it up yourself. You'd be amazed at how many cops (generic) don't have the foggiest idea about the laws they are spouting off about. Do a search of the supreme court ruleings for that state to see if case law exists.

If still in doubt, don't sell there. I've been at shows where they just went in with a plastic bag and cleaned the table off. They very likely will not charge you but will take everything but your shorts.


He also said that if it was illegal to buy them in the other state where I bought them and I then brought them back to NC that would be transporting across state lines and would go to federal court
Click to expand...

Do not mess with the Feds. It will cost you a lot of money and you almost always lose.

Talk to other knife makers in the area and see how they handle it.
Good luck, you've just been introduced to the dark side of this business. It's not enough to be a skilled craftsman. You have to be a F#&*ing Phily Laywer to boot.:grumpy:
 
hey Chuck,
those scagels look really nice on your earlier post. given what fish and game told ya,trying to sell those retail inside NC can be a problem. good lookin's knives though--Dan
 
Seem to me there are alot of knives across the country bearing antler material scales and I think they get bought and sold in most every state. Your post brings up some interesting questions. I have several boxes full of Elk and Deer antlers that are mine and friends who have provided them over the years, including a Washington State game agent. maybe things are a little more relaxed here in the deer department, but it is certainly something to think about.

Curious about some of the other Washington State makers, anyone had any difficulty in this regard?:confused:
 
Every state is different Blind Dog. Here in Va there's no problem selling them but some states forbid it. A good example is Va's Automatic statute. It is legal (kinda) to own Automatics as long as they are not concealed. It is NOT legal to sell them or give them away. I have seen them pull every one off tables and all the dealers inventory boxes at gun shows. It's OK for me to walk around with it but a big no no to put it on a table. The statute does create a prima facia case of intent to sell for mere possession. I however am exempt from that law because I don't recall voting for it!:D

I questioned NC's law as it pertains to commercial knife makers also. All of them offer bone and or Stag. It may be that the Game people just haven't turned Nazi enough to start snarfing the Old Timers off Wallmart shelves or there may be a provision for the sale. It will take research to find out.
 
Hey Chuck...

Yaaaa its the same here in Canada,,even with antler..
Its a stupid law no doubt...

It brings to mind a guy in Michigan who was selling home made yogurt in his mom and pop store...

The Feds told him he couldn't sell home made stuff that wasn't approved by the health department,,or something to that effect...

so he circumvented the situation by selling plastic spoons for a dollar and you got a free yogurt when you bought the spoon...LOL

Sticky situation .....

ttyle

Eric...
 
Here in Washington State there are antler buyers on the street corners. I have a couple game warden customers. If there is such a law nobody enforces it. I have never been questioned about it. Just dont take that spotted owl skinner with the rhino horn handle to the gun show.
 
Hey y'all,

I'm going to get a copy of the state laws here. The game warden I talked to promised to mail me a set. I do know better than to mess with the feds, that is a rough row to hoe there.

Thanks for the compliment on the knives Tangus, everyone seems to like them pretty good except for the game warden.

Anyone from the NC Custom Knifemakers Guild want to comment on this??

Seems like every time I find something I like to do the Govt comes along and tells me its illegal:barf:

Thanks for the replies fellas

Chuck
 
Hey Chuck you are one up on us here in australia I used to make double sided letter openers, but they changed the law if it has a double edge 75mm or longer it is a dagger under the new definition.

There must be thousands of office johnies lawyers and government types
in possession of illigal daggers.

Heres another red hearing we don't have wild deer here only farm animals. Are they wild animals or farm stock. purhaps there is aloop hole importing from another counrty or farm.
 
Reg ELLERY, I remember when I was a kid Australia used to advertise for homesteaders. Wanted people to come over some kind of bad. I considered it in high school. I sure am glad I came to my senses.

Maybe you all should consider buying a large amount of rope, go to the capitol, round up all your government officials and clean up the gene pool some. Come to think of it, might not be a bad idea here before we catch up to you!:grumpy:
 
Yep It is a great counrty. It was better when I was a kid.
I still love the palce but, you can't own selfloading guns/rifles, heaps of knives are now illigal, make too much noise and you are told to be quite if not the offending noise making apparatice is seized, can't have more than 2 dogs at home, can't have a fence over 6 feet (except if you own a deer farm can't be under 10 feet incase they escape), need a licence to fish in the ocean, can't import ivory, can't take whale teeth from a washed up carkas, can't pick the flowers, can't light camp fires, can't camp in most places, what ever is left is taxed. Ower $ only buys 56c us when I was kid ower dollar was higher than yours.

I Still love the place, Great place to visit.
This has nothing to do with antler its just added so you can enjoy your firearms and freedoms while they last. I hear the news reports here sometime that your anti gun lobbies are getting stronger. 3 years ago they collected all the self loaders including .22 cal adn 12 g in a buy back (compulsary) and put them through metal crushers in all states of Australia. I saw one of the threads a couple of weeks ago where your mates were posting pictures of thier firearms. 2 years in jail here for them. Those type were banned 1974.
 
We aren't too far behind. I disagree, it does pertain to deer antler and knifemaking in general. If we don't hang together and take an active interest in the people who are determined to rule every aspect of our lives, sports, hobbies and business, we will not be able to do it any more without offical government approval.

Chuck's problem is a good example. He can't make and sell a knife made with deer antler. It doesn't seem to make any difference if it was a shed, came from a deer harvested during the season or purchased from out of state. Our Government is like the guy that puts ketchup in every dish. It doesn't matter what you cook or what your taste is, he's gonna dump a ton of ketchup in because HE think's it's good.

Like it or not, it's an issue every knifemaker will have to deal with in the near future!:barf:
 
Just to clear it up. That is "any game animal native to the state". In other words, it is not legal to sell a knife with whitetail antler used as the handle. This is to prevent poaching of the native animals of North Carolina. It is legal to sell stag handle knives made from "Sambar" stag, which is used for most of the knives. Also, you can make a knife for your own use. You can also make a knife AND sell it if the customer supplies the deer antler. It just has to be one of his deer. Now that is in NC and I'm sure there are other states with similar laws. There are also federal laws pertaining to other animals. It is illegal to even have an eagle feather in your pocession.
 
Thank you Terrill. Ithought there may be additional provisions in the law. That's why I told Chuck to research it. The Game Warden should have known that and told Chuck when ehe was citing the law. I realize it is to curb poaching but it doesn't work and is just another of those laws that only hinders legitimate makers.:mad:
 
This is an excerpt from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Website

Sale of Deer Antlers and Other Parts

The law prohibits the sale of any game animal, game bird, or protected bird or any part thereof EXCEPT for DEER: ANTLERS, HIDES, BONES, SINEW, and OTHER INEDIBLE PARTS may be sold.

I like the idea mentioned of giving the knife away and charging for the sheath. You can also charge 1¢ more for any knife that has anything other than a stag handle since the stag handle is free with the knife. I do like the "sheath" idea better.

C Wilkins
 
One can only guess, or hope, that the intent of the law in NC
was to protect the white tails from poaching. The problem is
that the LOGICLESS CROWD in this country continue to succeed in
stealing the freedoms that we all seem to take for granted. We
must be vigilant and proactive in protecting these freedoms.
 
Hey y'all,

Thanks for the replies everyone. The game warden did say whitetail horns were the ones they were looking for, but he also said that because of the way I had buffed some of them out you couldn't tell what kind of horn they were. He also said they were tightening up on enforcement because of the CWD problem in the midwest. He said they didn't want to import anything into the state that might infect the deer herd. I totally agree with that, I sure don't want my deer to get some kind of wasting disease. Then I'd have to start BUYING meat, how revolting;)

Terrill, thanks for the reg quote, it makes me feel somewhat better.

Reg, If I were in Australia, I'd already be in prison, cause I do a lot of those things you mentioned(I've got enough dogs laying around the chair right now to get me in trouble). BTW, thanks for the cool letter opener pics you sent me, they are awesome.

Peter and Don, I think you are both right on the money. They keep chipping away at the small stuff until the big stuff disappears right along with it. Right now we got a lot of people saying that we got to give up some of our freedom in order to fight terrorists, I say screw that we shouldnt give up one damn inch of freedom, cause then the terrorists have already won.

Mike, thanks for the link to the NC knifemakers guild forum. I didn't even know it was there:o

I tried to post something about the thread to the NC guild forum but it kept saying that I wasn't registered at CKD(even though I have been for a long time). I will try again later.

CL Wilkins, loved the quote from will rogers.

When it is all said and done, more than likely I'm gonna do whatever I damn well please. I fought and worked in the army for many years so that everyone here could be free, including me! It just shocked me that something so ordinary was illegal.

Chuck
 
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