Anvil face Steel selection advice needed

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

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Aug 6, 2007
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I have some blocks of 1018, they are 1 3/4" thick by 5" wide by 10" long. I will be forge welding on a good steel face to the 1 3/4" by 5" side and was wondering if anyone had a recommendation. I have these steels on hand:

6150
5160
1045
1055
1075
1084
1095
W1
1084/15n20 twist damascus by Deker (a size piece big enough off a billet that the rest is destined for a sword)

I'll grind clean both faces, then tack weld (with Mig) the face plate and then forge weld. My equipment for HT is Park's 50, water/brine, a gas forge and pyrometer. It's not really an edge holding thing, more an impact resistance thing, then there needs to be a welding compatibility with 1018 and an ease of hardening, big bit of mass so I would think it needs to be deep hardening, but then some of the best anvils AFAIK had plain high/med(?) carbon steel for the face. I was thinking a base temper of fairly hard (couple of hours at 400F) for the face then "blue" the edges.
 
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any of those will be great... I think I read somewhere the original faces were very similar to W1. However your more critical question will be an accurate heat treat and temper cycles. I'm thinking low to mid 50's RC.

Jason
 
There's 2 different camps in that argument Jason, and i've seen two ends of the spectrum and everything in between. Some say they're anvil face should be the hardest tool in the shop, and I've worked on anvils that were UNTOUCHABLE by any tool I've ever made or used, files skated like glass AND they ruined punches and hammer faces. And others say they should be on the softer side and i've seen some that have dented by cold mild steel.

I'm thinkin i'll treat it like a knife? 3x normalization then a quench.
 
Just remember, 1018 forgewelds at a higher temp than high carbon steel. Also, unless you've got a REALLY big tank of P50 then you wont have enough for the amount of mass you're going to have to stick in it. The best way to quench an anvil is with a high volume flow of water / brine, otherwise you either heat up your quenchant too much, or you cant quench enough to keep the rest of the mass from auto tempering it back too soft again..
 
I'd go with the 1055 and mig weld all the way around. Then forge weld. Quench in brine......55 gallon drum minimum.....100 would be better.

Normalize once at 1650F and air cool. Austenuitize at 1525F. Quench in brine. The as quenched HRc should be around 60. Temper at 500F for a mid-50's final HRc, 600F for 52-53.
 
Sam, I am not posting for a steel recomendation but for a request of video or at the least still pics with subtitles of explanation of the whole process start to finish. That would probably be the :cool: thing I have seen in a while!

I am sure that I more in the majority when I say please document this process very well! :thumbup: I would love to see it!!!!!!!!!!
 
I have 5 of these billets, but i'd like to not mess it up. Stacy, why do you suggest welding all the way around? I'd like to not do that, unless you give me a good reason otherwise, to retain the characteristic weld line.

Butch where did you find that vid?!!? That's demented ROFL :D

Dixie, I sure will, If i'm going to go to all the trouble i'll make sure someone learns something, or atleast get's a kick out of it.
 
Total NOOB question here. Seriously. I'm just trying to learn and understand this stuff.
But is it necessary to forge weld it? If it is welded or brazed in place, with good mating surfaces, then would there be any problem in use? What sort of problem? Chatter with hard pounding? Separation from anvil?
Thanks,
Dean
 
Sam Salvati said:
I have 5 of these billets, but i'd like to not mess it up. Stacy, why do you suggest welding all the way around? I'd like to not do that, unless you give me a good reason otherwise, to retain the characteristic weld line.

Butch where did you find that vid?!!? That's demented ROFL :D

Dixie, I sure will, If i'm going to go to all the trouble i'll make sure someone learns something, or atleast get's a kick out of it.
Click to expand...

Welding all the way around, with the inside already nice clean level and shiny, will allow you to dry weld the two pieces together without any air getting inbetween, and will increase the success rate of your welding the plate on significantly.
 
Dean, There would be chatter, as well as separation over time, from the chatter too you would lose efficiency and the anvil would feel very dead. I have seen some anvils with forge welded faces on, where there was a cavity in the center of the face, about a 2" round spot, that must have not welded or had scale on it or something. You could tap all around it and would hear a nice clear ring but venture into that one spot and it would go clank. It was funny to work on you would hear "ting ting ting clank ting clank ting" hehe. Some people when building an anvil do away with the face plate and build up the face with hard facing rod, then mill or grind the surface flat.

Justin, If that's the only reason then i'll trust my welding ability (and sheer luck) and go with a couple tacks and a slow soak for the heat. It's only 1 3/4" x 5" and it'll have alot of mass.
 
Sam,
Welding the seam all the way around will eliminate any need for flux and prevent oxidation of the surfaces. It is called "dry welding". Many damascus makers do the same thing. Just bring it up to full welding heat ,soak to make sure it is hot to the core, and weld up.
 
I am familiar with dry welding, I thought you might have suggested it for some other reason. It would be far easier and basically fool proof, but where's the fun in that :D If I do not succeed with just a couple tacks, then i'll use that technique. It should basically flux up and weld like any other billet, just bigger.
 
Sam,
I think Deker's twist is the way to go. I saw an episode of Modern Marvels where they demonstrated explosive welding. Like anvil shooting, but using High Explosives on top of the face to be welded. Can even be used to weld dissimilar metals. Think of the possibilities. -Doug
 
would be hard not to ignite the black powder with the face at a welding heat hehe, but then again it might not need to be :D
 
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