Anvil Ideas

Fish30114

Fish30114

Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
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I, like many of you have been quite frustrated by the obscene prices of anvils nowadays, so I wanted to float this information/question out there. I recently requested some pricing on a piece of steel that was approx.--30"x10x4, both quotes I got back were under a $1 lb and I'm not sure of one of the steel types--was simply told that it was hot rolled steel, the other piece was called A-36--I'm not familiar with that but the guy who was selling it said that the end of the piece where they cut it had hot marks from the cutting and that it was noticeably harder on the very end. So I don't know what you really need in hardness for an anvil, but apparently this particular piece of steel is hard-n-able to some degree. I just thought this was worth a share, because I was able to find a 500+ lb piece of steel for under $1 lb, and that seemed like a pretty good price to me--

I would love to hear folks thoughts on this, and if maybe I'm on to something.
 
A-36 is the common construction and welding steel. It is humorously described as "made from 36 types of scrap tell". It is low carbon, and will not harden to any appreciable degree. The "hot rolled" is probably A-36 or another simple 1020-1030 steel. If you are just going to pound on them as-is, the non-hardenability isn't an issue. That said, an anvil should have a hardened face or be fully hardened.

If you know a good welder, he can hard face the A-36 block and make a servicable anvil.

For a hardened and good quality anvil, you want 4140 or a similar alloy. It will harden just right. You need to find a HTer that can do the block to your specs. I would ask for a hardness of Rc 50.
 
In Georgia it really shouldn't be thatoo hard to find an anvil. I found one in the middle of the high desert, a great JHM. Your just have to watch craiglist like a hawk.
 
Good help there Stacy, the 550 lb piece is 38" long and 4.5" wide by 10.75" this piece is 4140--so I am wondering if that wouldn't be a pretty good choice. I think a mill shop I do business with cold get the last
2-4 inches hardened the way they have discussed random hardening with me..
Ben I'm sure your right, I just ran across these pieces at slightly under $1 a lb and thought they might be a good way to spend the bucks. I had the 300 lb piece of 'crap steel- A-36 delivered to day, I have a buddy who welds, and I'm thinking from what Stacy said I might try and get him to put a 2" slab of hardened A-2 on top of the A-36
 
I guess it depends on how you use it, but really- the anvil is your main work bench for forging. Wouldn't you expect a work bench specifically made for another trade to be somewhat costly? The anvil is set up with a number of surfaces that are just right for all the common forging operations, so it's not just a hunk o steel.
I do most of my welding on a platen table, for instance- it's a ton and a half of iron, perfectly flat, true and level, that I can fasten anything to, in seconds, in any configuration. I got a deal on mine, but a new one is around five grand- for a five by five surface- and worth every cent.
Good tools ain't cheap.
If you're willing to spend $500 on a chunk of scrap, you're most of the way to a really good used anvil....which will help you in many ways that aren't apparent til you've used it a lot.
For strictly knifemaking, though, you don't necessarily need a London pattern anvil- there's a lot of info on dedicated knife anvils out there.
That said, I have two anvils set up in my shop- one is a 250, the other is 150 and just used for tooling, and there's an ASO (anvil shaped object) on the floor that doesn't have a hard face and is basically just a chunk of iron, but I just use it for banging stuff on.
Paid 1200 for the anvils, well used in good condition, but then again- I was until recently a full time blacksmith.
 
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Fish30114 said:
I'm thinking from what Stacy said I might try and get him to put a 2" slab of hardened A-2 on top of the A-36
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I think the "hardfacing" that Stacy is referring to isn't just welding a slab of hardened steel on top. That will result in edges welded tight and the center "dead" aka, little to no rebound. What you want is a layer of weld bead built up across the entire surface that can then be ground flat. This process uses a special type of welding rod known as "hardfacing rod". It produces a similar effect to the old anvils that had a piece of hardenable steel forgewelded to the top of the anvil, then heattreated.
I hope my explanation hasn't confused you unnecessarily.
 
Alaskan Hunter that's actually good and helpful intel. This really just began as me talking to a couple of metal suppliers, and just finding out I could get a large piece of 4140 for less than $1 lb sounded like a good deal for steel--to me--I've got a couple of pieces of RR Track and Crane Track, which are good anvil type objects in their own right--I'm thinking I might place the piece of RR track on top of the chunk of
A-36 I got today---I know if would at least anchor whatever is placed on top of it solidly.
 
It looks like you're headed in the right direction. If one is resourceful enough, there are plenty of workable substitutes for an anvil, though I doubt any work as well as the real thing. If you look at pictures of smiths from third world countries, you can see guys using sledgehammer heads or rocks as anvils. Is it safe or efficient? The answer is a resounding NO! on both, but the concept of an anvil is there. You want a good sized mass of solid steel directly under your hammer. Additionally, you want it hard enough that it won't deform under heavy use, but not so hard that it chips or shatters. I have used (with varying degrees of effectiveness) the sledgehammer head (DO NOT TRY! it was kinda scary), a large ripper tooth from an excavator set into a stump, and my current "anvil". This one (the best so far) is a T shaped one made from the replaceable bit of a road grader blade. Three layers of it in 2' sections welded together and capped with an 18" piece to form the top of the T. I V'd my weld joints and welded in 6+ passes to give full welded contact to the top. The sweet spot on it is about 2"x3" and the rest of it is just good as a larger work surface and a rough straightness gauge for heat treat warpage. It works ok, but I still want a real anvil. When you add $1-2 per # for shipping on top of the purchase price of the actual tool, I just can't afford it. Due to the cost, I've had to get rather creative in my efforts for a good substitute.
I wonder if a 2' section from the base of a large forklift tine set on end into a section of hardwood log would work well? Not sure if it would be hard enough as is though.
 
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I worked with an old blacksmith in Thailand. He had a sledgehammer head (12# ?) halfway sunk into a very large hardwood log. He typically forged knives with blades around 12".
 
Well, some interesting info coming to light IMO, that's what I love about this Forum and BF's in general--I am noodling on how I would harden the top of the 4140 chunk o steel, I am not so concerned about the shape of my anvil (like object) I have done enough to figure out I have a ton to learn, and also have been please with what I've done so far, and all that was done on the flat at the back of my Shop Vice!
My buddy is coming over tomorrow so we can place the 300 lb chunk of A-36 at what probably will be it's final resting place--what do you folks think I should do to surface treat this piece? I was thinking of forcing some kind of patina on it after spinning off all the light rust on it with my disc grinder.
 
Put up a "wanting to buy anvil" ad up on craigslist in the "tools" section and wait. Repost it every few days and eventually you'll find one. I did this and finally ended up with a pretty good 155lb Peter Wright for $100.
 
Painting the steel to avoid continued rust--too obvious for me to think of--that's why I was thinking about forcing some kind of coverage--paint is easy too!
Thanks for your .01 Lieblad, your thought are in keeping with what I thought. I appreciate all the feedback. The 500 lb piece of 4140 still holds some interest, I can obtain that for $550 delivered....
 
I was on Amazon yesterday and noticed that they have 4, 5, and 6" diameter round 4140 with free shipping (which is worth its weight in gold up here) I'm thinking of making a post anvil out of it...
 
DevinT said:
I've always wanted to try AR500 plate for an anvil.

Hoss
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I work at a power plant. We use AR plate at work for liners in coal chutes. It's highly abrasion resistant and hard as hell. I have a few piece I brought home. I was thinkin about putting a piece ontop of my old railroad track anvil. I have it set on end right now. Since I got a real anvil I don't use it much anymore. I know welding plate together doesn't work well for an anvil. Maybe bevel the track a few inches and try to weld the AR500 plate on it? What were you thinkin Hoss?
 
NickBoyle said:
I work at a power plant. We use AR plate at work for liners in coal chutes. It's highly abrasion resistant and hard as hell. I have a few piece I brought home. I was thinkin about putting a piece ontop of my old railroad track anvil. I have it set on end right now. Since I got a real anvil I don't use it much anymore. I know welding plate together doesn't work well for an anvil. Maybe bevel the track a few inches and try to weld the AR500 plate on it? What were you thinkin Hoss?
Click to expand...

How thick is it? I thought maybe putting a couple of thicker pieces on edge and seeing if that would work.

Hoss
 
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