Any ESEE sharpening buffs?

[unit]

I assume you guys are all proficient at sharpening (even though you do not need to do so very often ), but of those of you that are fairly experienced, has anyone thinned out an ESEE very much?

I decided to experiment with my 5 last night and took the edge angle down a bit. I know that the edge will be less durable, but it will also cut and slice MUCH better.

I realize that no one would ever accuse the 5 of excelling at slicing, but I just wanted to experiment and see how good of a cutter it could be...this weekend I will find out how well the legendary heat treat holds up to some typical woods use without the support of the broader shoulders the edges comes with.

Feel free to mock this idea if you like...it is sort of crazy, but I find that most of my knives have a sweet spot for me and it is almost always a lower angle than what it came with. When I am wrong, I simply repair the damage with a larger (wider) angle and repeat the "testing"...I stop going wider when the edge performs well for my uses and ideally I have the perfect (for me) balance between slicing and edge retention.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

 

[Falcor]

I do the same - it has been posted on BF more than once that a knife always performs better after the first sharpening. I changed mine to 22 degrees per side (44 inclusive) using a Wicked Edge that resulted in an increase in performance - not a slicer but close. Its the same angle I use on my Busses.

 

[adaman04]

I once sharpened my Lite Machete in the buff. Never again!

Knocking the shoulders off an edge is very common. It’s the first step in convexing so it is quite popular.

 

[KennyB]

I reprofiled my Izula's edge to get rid of the asymmetries and convexing using my jig and a waterstone, but I kept the factory grind angles (not sure what they are, I think 40 inclusive) and I haven't felt the need to thin it out at all after just fixing the edge up like that. It's plenty sharp as I can shave my face with it and split hairs, but I've been most impressed with the edge retention. Its latest feat was prying the cover to my gas tank, and it barely got a little rolled edge that I fixed up with a little bit of light grinding on a fine abrasive and a strop. I think the shining feature of the Izula is the full flat grind; it leaves the blade thin at the edge but still very stout where it needs it.

I haven't held a 5, but I think with a 1/4" blade and a saber grind it's probably going to be pretty thick behind the edge and that seems to be the most deciding factor in slicing capabilities. It would probably make it cut smoother overall, but I think to turn it into a great slicer you'd have to focus on thinning out the primary grind before the secondary--otherwise I think you'd have to make the secondary grind much too acute to really thin the shoulders out significantly. You could do it if you stripped the coating, but then who knows how long it would take to actually thin out the primary grind on a blade that thick. Should be interesting to try out though.

 

[The Government]

Knocking the shoulders off an edge is very common. It’s the first step in convexing so it is quite popular.

I am just learning how to put an acute convex edge on my larger knives. My ESEE 6 was a quite a task. I finally got it down to 220 grit, and now I am working my way up to 1500. It now has a nice thin convex edge. The edge's grind marks go up just under a centimeter on the blade.

It takes a while, but when its done, its done.

The benefit in performance is worth it IMHO.

Its probably not the kind of modification anyone should make if they are going to be really rough on their knives (unless they make the convex grind short and thick). I wouldn't be sticking mine in the dirt, or anything like that. YMMV

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

The 5 is such a brute of a knife that I sharpened mine on the edge pro at 48 degrees inclusive. That's the highest setting on the edge pro.


Why thin the edge on such a thick knife? Even at 48 inclusive my 5 is razor sharp and slices well.

 

[Wandering_About]

All my ESEEs have been reprofiled. Do it myself, convex them on stones. A couple are pretty darn thin. No idea of the angle but they're pretty darn thin. With the convex I've never had problems with any of them, they cut great, hold a very good edge, and only through real accidents/stupidity has any of them ever dented or rolled. Redid my Izula, 3s, and Junglas. All work fine with the thin edges. I think the convex helps a lot, as well as being careful not to force them into anything that would obviously damage the edge.

The only major issue I had with a reprofiled ESEE was when I dropped my RAT Pack knife down into the riprap while fishing. Dented one spot on the edge, but that's kind of what you'd expect from that.

 

[unit]

Why thin the edge on such a thick knife? Even at 48 inclusive my 5 is razor sharp and slices well.

That is a fair question. My short answer is that I intend to prove to myself weather or not the edge geometry can be improved upon for my needs/wants/duties with the knife.

I like many aspects of this knife, but if I can reduce the force needed to make a cut AND retain my edge through the tasks I typically do, the knife will be of greater value to me.

Additionally, the journey through various edge geometries with this knife is part of my bonding experience with the knife.

 

[CrimsonTideShooter]

That is a fair question. My short answer is that I intend to prove to myself weather or not the edge geometry can be improved upon for my needs/wants/duties with the knife.

I like many aspects of this knife, but if I can reduce the force needed to make a cut AND retain my edge through the tasks I typically do, the knife will be of greater value to me.

Additionally, the journey through various edge geometries with this knife is part of my bonding experience with the knife.

Sounds like a good reason to me. :thumbup:

Send me an email or something and let me know how the thinner edge works out for you, I'm curious to know.

My main motivation for keeping the thick edge is that I chipped the edge twice when I first got it. The thick edge will hopefully minimize any chipping that might happen in the future, and if it does chip I'll surely have to remove less metal to fix it with the thicker edge.

 

[unit]

Sounds like a good reason to me. :thumbup:

Send me an email or something and let me know how the thinner edge works out for you, I'm curious to know.

My main motivation for keeping the thick edge is that I chipped the edge twice when I first got it. The thick edge will hopefully minimize any chipping that might happen in the future, and if it does chip I'll surely have to remove less metal to fix it with the thicker edge.

Can do.

I have heard many accounts of factory edges failing prematurely with various knives and makers. It is not a hard and fast rule, but it is also not uncommon for a factory edge to under perform relative a seemingly identical edge honed by a slower method. I will spare you the explanation of why I believe this may be the case, but perhaps the chipping you experienced was related to this subject?

Regardless, I have found that many of my knives will perform VERY well even at angles that some would grasp their bellies and laugh at. I take a great deal of time and effort in putting on an edge and polishing it slowly and carefully...my efforts are often rewarded....sometimes with a good performing blade, and other times with a lesson regarding limits of a steel.

So far indications are favorable for this 5...But I will freely point out that my reasons for selecting this blade are probably quite different from most other buyers.

 

[Battle Creek Knives]

I would not consider myself a sharpening buff to say the least, however I've had my fair share of sharpening knives over the years, both freehand stones and now belt sanders exclusively..

I think your idea is spot on for the thickness of the 5. I've completely reprofiled (to a nub) one of my Izulas after stripping it, its now one of the sharpest knives I own. My HEST OTOH needs some work, I've convexed and tried to make it super sharp to no avail, I'm convinced a lot of it has to do with the coating.. I'm seriously thinking about sending it to RichardJ to give it a once over..

 

[StoneColdChuckTX]

Rudimentary question since I've never done it though I've been curious:

I know it gives you a curve instead of a V, but is convexed where you sharpen it with sandpaper on a mouse pad backwards?

Does it make the edge hold up even longer?

 

[unit]

Rudimentary question since I've never done it though I've been curious:

I know it gives you a curve instead of a V, but is convexed where you sharpen it with sandpaper on a mouse pad backwards?

Does it make the edge hold up even longer?

There are many ways of making a blade convex, but what you mention is one of the more common ways for guys to do it at home.

Regarding use and edge retention...that is debatable. Many feel that it does prolong edge life for many uses, but it is somewhat dependent on how steep the curve is on the convex.

Technically, true V grinds are rare in that on some tiny scale there is convexity present. A guy could argue that any free-hand sharpened blade and even a lot of the ones sharpened with jigs are actually a little bit convexed....but generally the curve is so slight that everyone refers to them as a V.

 

[KennyB]

There are many ways of making a blade convex, but what you mention is one of the more common ways for guys to do it at home.

Regarding use and edge retention...that is debatable. Many feel that it does prolong edge life for many uses, but it is somewhat dependent on how steep the curve is on the convex.

Technically, true V grinds are rare in that on some tiny scale there is convexity present. A guy could argue that any free-hand sharpened blade and even a lot of the ones sharpened with jigs are actually a little bit convexed....but generally the curve is so slight that everyone refers to them as a V.

I think avoiding any slight convexing on a V angle is about impossible, but I think with a jig the biggest factors that will produce them will be pressure and the wear on the abrasive. That will prevent it ever coming out truly flat, but in my personal experience this slight curvature is not perceivable with something like a machinist's square and 30x magnification even on very flat free-handed bevels, so I think that the amount of curvature produced is pretty negligible.

Just thought I'd share that little bit since I've put some pretty accurate squares on there before.