Any examples of pattern-welding that look like Wootz?

[St33L]

Are there any examples of pattern welding that has the fine grain pattern of Wootz?

Most of the pattern welded Damascus examples have very "thick" patterns.

If one were to fold it enough times, would it eventually look similar to Wootz?

How about with Mokugane? It would be very interesting to see a super fine grained pattern like Wootz but as Mokugane.

 

[mete]

I don't know if you could ever get pattern welded to look like wootz. They are after all two different procedures , one has specks , the other is lines.

 

[St33L]

I don't know if you could ever get pattern welded to look like wootz. They are after all two different procedures , one has specks , the other is lines.

Maybe there are examples of Mokugane or pattern welded Damascus that have extremely fine patterns due to thinner blanks and/or more folds?

 

[Shorttime]

I read about Ed Fowler's work with low-temperature forging, some years ago. It is his belief that the Wootz pattern (with speckles), is due to forging at lower temperatures, rather than pattern welding.

My understanding is that "Damascus" steel came about because it was a way of alloying metals with different qualities, before the advent of arc furnaces that could actually melt metal, and the understanding we have of metallurgy and steel chemistry.

But the two processes were different. Although they were capable of making blades of equal quality, they started out as separate things.

 

[Shorttime]

I should also say that pattern welded steel (Damascus steel), gets it's look from the number of times the steel has been folded upon itself. A blade that has been folded 50 or 100 times will still have relatively thick layers. As you start to approach the 1,000 layer/fold mark, the lines get very thin.

There is also a direct rise in cost, with fold count. It's a labor-intensive process, and you may have to compromise on what you want, because of what you can afford.

 

[St33L]

I should also say that pattern welded steel (Damascus steel), gets it's look from the number of times the steel has been folded upon itself. A blade that has been folded 50 or 100 times will still have relatively thick layers. As you start to approach the 1,000 layer/fold mark, the lines get very thin.

There is also a direct rise in cost, with fold count. It's a labor-intensive process, and you may have to compromise on what you want, because of what you can afford.

Yes, I understand the differences between pattern welded Damascus and Wootz.

I wanted to know how intricate and tight of a pattern pattern welding can achieve - how close it can get to the tight grains seen on Wootz steel.

1,024 layers is achieved after 10 folds; 1,048,576 layers after 20 folds; 134,217,728 layers after 27 folds; 1,073,741,824 layers after 30 folds; etc.

Maybe I should look into a 1 million + layer pattern-weld to see how that looks.

 

[Ed Fowler]

I believe that the heat required to forge weld every fold in layered Damascus prevents the development of fine grain found in Wootz. Low temp forging in a narrow thermal band 1,625 f. to below critical and a lot of thermal cycles coupled with a high rate of reduction is the key. Naturally your selection of the steel to work with and heat treat are also essential.

 

[Natlek]

Yes, I understand the differences between pattern welded Damascus and Wootz.

I wanted to know how intricate and tight of a pattern pattern welding can achieve - how close it can get to the tight grains seen on Wootz steel.

1,024 layers is achieved after 10 folds; 1,048,576 layers after 20 folds; 134,217,728 layers after 27 folds; 1,073,741,824 layers after 30 folds; etc.

Maybe I should look into a 1 million + layer pattern-weld to see how that looks.

After a million layers, most likely is to get a new steel and no pattern .Really, where is the limit? For example , if you have use 1095 steel and 15N20 .Is it possible to get a new steel with average values of both steel after 1 or 2 milion layer

 

[Helleri]

It may be more correct to say Pattern Welded Steel and Crucible Steel. While it can be known as Wootz it is also known as Pulad, Bulat, Damascene, and Damascus, depending on where it was produced or where the ingot was exported for crafting into a weapon. Yet all of these are crucible steel products.