Any experience with CBN compound?

catalystman80

catalystman80

Joined
May 1, 2013
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Hey guys,

I was looking through the KnivesShipFree and DLT websites, and saw that they sell CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) with stropping paddles. From the description, they supposedly cut faster and to a finer/more refined edge, hence more effective with "super steels." I only have one fixed blade in CPM3V, and some folders in S30VN. So over 90% of my blades are 01 (a few A2s). So I guess the question is, anyone have experience using the CBN compounds for stropping on 01 (or even A2) steel, and seen any increase in performance over say a typical black, green, white compounds (which is what I use and really can't complain about their performance)? Looking forward to hearing about your thoughts.

Josh
 
Search the Maintenance & Tinkering forum. An overwhelming amount of information there. I've used quite a few compounds, and strop combinations, but never cbn. I just don't need it for my carbon blades. Cpm m4 responds very well to ChromOx compound (green) as well as SiC (black) compounds where more than just occasional maintenance is needed. Super high vanadium steels should see a benefit with diamond paste, but generally (imo) it's more in the realm of hobby sharpening. Nothing wrong with that. I used to hobby sharpen and it still bugs me that I got so close to passing the hanging hair test, but never quite nailed it. Got my Opinel to where it could break a hair dragging it (fingers 2" out) across the apex, but that was, sadly, my best effort. Those edges are so frail though, they really are only good for showing off.

Sorry, what was the question again? :D
 
Thanks for the feedback. I did read last night at another forum that CBN performs similarly to poly diamond compounds for relatively softer steels (RC<60), and it leaves a more delicate finish (hence shinier). For harder steels, poly diamond cuts much faster. I guess the issue for me is I don't have experience with diamond compounds either, so it's hard for me to gauge the performance gain over the Bark River stropping compound bars. I typically sharpen only up to 2000 (once in awhile, I'll take it to 5000, but sometimes I mess up with finer stones so I don't always go there) on my Shapton pro, so stropping helps a lot to refine further and remove some leftover burrs. They're a little pricey, so a little hesitant to pull the trigger (plus, obviously, for my purposes which is mostly camping and bushcraft practice, it's not really warranted....but the OCD kicks in sometimes and won't let it go).

Update: well, decided to save time pondering over it and ordered the 2 and 1 micron CBNs, I'll provide an update on the performance.
 
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Thanks Strig, for some reason your reply didn't show this morning so I just saw it now. Yeah, as I replied to NoFair above, I do realize it's an overkill for my application. I already get hair (a thin asian hair as well ;) ) shaving sharpness with 2000 shapton and some stropping using the regular BRKT compound bars that holds well to most woodcrafting applications, and I probably won't deviate from the current regiment. So my desire is to really cut down on the stropping time (which really isn't long, maybe 10-20 minutes at most), and was wondering how much faster the CBNs will cut compared to what I got.

Strigamort said:
Search the Maintenance & Tinkering forum. An overwhelming amount of information there. I've used quite a few compounds, and strop combinations, but never cbn. I just don't need it for my carbon blades. Cpm m4 responds very well to ChromOx compound (green) as well as SiC (black) compounds where more than just occasional maintenance is needed. Super high vanadium steels should see a benefit with diamond paste, but generally (imo) it's more in the realm of hobby sharpening. Nothing wrong with that. I used to hobby sharpen and it still bugs me that I got so close to passing the hanging hair test, but never quite nailed it. Got my Opinel to where it could break a hair dragging it (fingers 2" out) across the apex, but that was, sadly, my best effort. Those edges are so frail though, they really are only good for showing off.

Sorry, what was the question again? :D
Click to expand...
 
Shaptons? Are you using an EP, or Wicked Edge?

10-20min of stropping is excessive, but that's just my experience. I get the apex as clean as possible on the stones, then finish refining with a couple of minutes on the strop. I mainly use green compound, or sometimes a custom white AlumOx compound.

Have you investigated the Spyderco ceramics? They seem to be very well liked, cut really fast, but the trick stone is the one that you destroy a DMT getting. Apparently the Spydie stones will become exceedingly fine with a lot of work. As I said, it'll destroy a DMT in the process, but supposedly the stone really benefits. I took a white EP ceramic and ground it against a cheap Harbor Freight diamond block looking for similar results. I got some white slurry, but the stone still ran aggressive and fairly coarse for ceramic. I'd like to try more stones, but I've kind of stopped the whole hobby to focus on other things. BF is many things to many people, but it's when you start looking at the sub-sects that you really start to see the bigger picture. Reading that back, it reads kind of ridiculous, but it's true. :)

I wish that I had been a member in this sub forum a few months ago. I found a (really dusty) old cardboard box at the local surplus store. They had a number of translucent Arkansas stones(!), and when I asked how much the lady said "eh... Give me $5 for the whole box". I ended up just giving those all away to anyone that wanted one in the Maintenance forum. I really wish that I'd held a few back for times like this. I actually really love them for carbon steel blades. Not what you're looking for in terms of sheer refinement (and of course, it's entirely possible that you have a dozen, who knows), but I'd say they are a worthwhile addition to your kit. They don't work well with super steels (or at all with high vanadium steels), but are my favorite for general carbon sharpening.

Sounds like you've got a firm grasp on all of this. I'm certainly far from an expert, but it's been fun trying different things. I may have to add some cbn spray to my "must buy" list. Let me know how you like it.
 
Neither, I use the shapton glass for coarse grits (120, 220, and 320, don't use them all consecutively, typically only 320 which still cuts pretty damn fast, unless I'm doing a complete re-profiling, but having them all allows me to use each as lapping stone for one another) and 1000, 2000, and 5000 (though this one not as much) Shapton ha no kuromaku (known and sold as professional series in the states, mine are the Japanese version cause I'm just weird that way) water stones, all free hand sharpening. I typically either extend the secondary bevel or sometimes go convex zero, so free hand works well for me. I'm asking myself a direct question and maybe I strop that long cause I just like doing it. Chances are about 50 passes on each side gets me 99% there but I just keep stropping cause I find it relaxing. As I said I typically end with the stones at 2000, and the shapton ha no line leaves a rougher finish than other stones (they are a bit more wear resistant than say chosera stones) of comparable grit number, so I do like stropping quite a bit not only for refining the edge but to get the shine.

Yeah as I admitted earlier my current regiment gives me results that I'm satisfied with. Part of it is for fun, and part of it is I like using nice tools to maintain my nice cutting tools :)

Yeah, will provide an update on the cbn.
 
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Nothing wrong at all with any of that. ;)

I understand now about the time you put in stropping. I too find sharpening, for lack of a better term, Zen like. I prefer the stones, but I can see why you dig the strop. I work in a food processing factory. I have found myself using the high pressure hoses on the floors only to find that I'd been at it for far too long. Concentration takes a back seat to some degree and gives you time to zone out. Same with sharpening.

Funny you should mention the apex profile. I was just thinking about that. I like the ep for the re profiling heavy lifting, but after a very coarse stone I move to the more labor intensive work. I've realized that my preference is heavily on a zero grind be it full flat or slight convex. Easy to get away with when you are a careful knife user. For me being careful only comes from the work that goes into the edge. I'm not a fan of a micro bevel. I've always got a beater laying around. ;)

Good stuff. I like your style.
 
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