Any hope for loose Swindon key knives?

C

CoffeeCat2112

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2007
Messages
2,338
So, I have this new-old stock Old Timer 33OT that, in it's current state, is a major turn-off to me, since both blades exhibit an inordinate amount of side-to-side play. Is there anything that can be done about this?
 
Several pocketknife tinkers and cutlers can fix them. But given the knife's value vs. shipping and repair costs, it is often worthwhile to just buy another NIB example. They are neither expensive nor rare. Yours may well be an "end of days" knife, assembled in the days between shutdown and auction. Many of those knives would not pass QC muster when the factory was in business.

IMHO, the fix is to cut the spring pivot pin, rotate the handle/bolster halves out of the way to expose the blade pivot pin, tap it tighter, then reassemble and repin the spring. Sorry I can't be of more help. One cutler/tinker familiar with the fix is Dale Vincent, forum name "Orvet".

Michael
 
Woodrow F Call said:
Which ones had the Swindon key?
Click to expand...

Almost all of the post-1950's Schrade slipjoint knives, excepting those few examples of the patterns made for them by Camillus and a few made in Providence at the Imperial factory there. The "tell" of Swinden Key construction is that there are no through-bolster blade pivot pins.

Patent # 2,977,678 was filed by Dave Swinden in 1960 and issued in 1961, assigned to IKAC.

http://collectors-of-schrades-r.us/patents/002977678.pdf
 
I've had several Ulster Campers that have all loosened up badly. The fix that Codger describes is exactly the same as the fix as I've heard Dale (aka Orvet) describe it in other venues.

Here's a very detailed video on the fix by "Muskrat Man".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X44CxU2wtOk

This said, I don't think it's unreasonable to just live with the wobble. Different designs fail differently and one thing I've noticed about my trashed Ulsters is that they loosen up to a point and then stop getting worse. I suspect the key finally catches and resists further and complete pull out. On a traditionally pinned knife, my experience is that when wobble gets really bad it will just continue to get worse, as there's no stopping the pin from moving after a bit. I have one old Camper that the outer bolster is off and the screwdriver blade wobbles but it's just sort of stopped there (and still get's used on my work bench). If it's a hard use knife, this is what I do.

Lastly... I have affected a very crude and temporary "fix" on a Swinden key by going for broke with it in a padded vice. This is not a real fix and is actually doing damage. The idea is to squeeze it till the wobble goes away. I'm 99.9% that all this is doing is causing the pivot pin to deform a bit laterally, which ultimately will work harden and weaken the pivot pin. For a display knife or light user, that'll eek a bit more wobble free use. For a while.

Hope this helps.
 
pinnah said:
I've had several Ulster Campers that have all loosened up badly. The fix that Codger describes is exactly the same as the fix as I've heard Dale (aka Orvet) describe it in other venues.

Here's a very detailed video on the fix by "Muskrat Man".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X44CxU2wtOk

This said, I don't think it's unreasonable to just live with the wobble. Different designs fail differently and one thing I've noticed about my trashed Ulsters is that they loosen up to a point and then stop getting worse. I suspect the key finally catches and resists further and complete pull out. On a traditionally pinned knife, my experience is that when wobble gets really bad it will just continue to get worse, as there's no stopping the pin from moving after a bit. I have one old Camper that the outer bolster is off and the screwdriver blade wobbles but it's just sort of stopped there (and still get's used on my work bench). If it's a hard use knife, this is what I do.

Lastly... I have affected a very crude and temporary "fix" on a Swinden key by going for broke with it in a padded vice. This is not a real fix and is actually doing damage. The idea is to squeeze it till the wobble goes away. I'm 99.9% that all this is doing is causing the pivot pin to deform a bit laterally, which ultimately will work harden and weaken the pivot pin. For a display knife or light user, that'll eek a bit more wobble free use. For a while.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

No. If you look at the patent drawings you will see that crushing the bolsters accomplishes nothing. The key fits through a keyhole shaped slot on the backside of the cover liner and then slides down the slot in the keyhole. there is a recess in the back of the bolsters which provide clearance for the knob portion of the key.

vqllwg.jpg
 
Codger_64 said:
No. If you look at the patent drawings you will see that crushing the bolsters accomplishes nothing. The key fits through a keyhole shaped slot on the backside of the cover liner and then slides down the slot in the keyhole. there is a recess in the back of the bolsters which provide clearance for the knob portion of the key.

vqllwg.jpg
Click to expand...

I'm going to have to really study them or something, maybe tear a beat up Schrade apart to figure it out. I love Schrades but their one flaw, and it's fairly significant is the swindon key. What's a "swindon keys for dummies" resource? Assembly prints are difficult without parts in hand.

I've "fixed" two so far by hitting them with a hammer. I don't mean "tap, tap, tap" peening a pin, I mean hitting them to the point of worrying about hurting the knife. They tightened up and have stayed that way through some use anyway. They were more beaters or I would have been afraid to do that. How could that work?
 
Codger,

Yes about the recess. The force I'm talking about is crazy strong force, as in, either the knife will break or something will change force. I suspect that it's enough force to first deform the outer bolster cover and second deform the pin (laterally).

DSCF11212.jpg

(nice picture btw!)

I've done this on a couple of Swinden key knives. It's a move of last resort and I'm noting it, not recommending it. Very easy to pop the outer bolster covers off this way or just otherwise wreck the knife. It's like a lot more force than I would use for a normal slip joint or lock back. A lot a lot. What we used to call a BFH fix in the bike shops. As in use a bigger something hammer.

Must emphasize. I don't consider this a real "fix". I certainly don't think it will work in all cases nor will it last. More of a last stop before the trash can.
 
Blaine, I may be able to tighten that up without disassembling it. If so it wouldn't cost you anything but the shipping, drop me a line if you're up for it.

Eric
 
Blaine....If I were you, I'd send it to Eric. I'm sure Mr. Swindon can tighten up your knife. :)

Now that I think of it, I tried to tighten up an Ulster Boy Scout knife by peening the bolsters but could never get it tight enough. I also could not see the pivot pin protruding through the bolsters. Now I know why......Swindon key.
 
Last edited:
ea42 said:
Blaine, I may be able to tighten that up without disassembling it. If so it wouldn't cost you anything but the shipping, drop me a line if you're up for it.

Eric
Click to expand...

Thin shimstock? Wait... don't tell me. Every cutler has his secrets! :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top