Any ideas on this old schrade ?

J

jcmjr

Joined
Jun 4, 2011
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16
So, Posted this in another section on this board. They said maybe here would be a better idea of information. Here is a pic
It is unmarked but matches a Schrade muskrat. You can read the rest of the post here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/854248-Any-idea-of-makers-name-please
Anyone got other ideas as to why this thing is unmarked or is it an imposter?
PICT0001-13.jpg
 
Thanks, No markings anywhere. No grinding marks either. I was thinking that it just got missed somehow. But when I called taylor the company that makes schrade... They said and I quote very rudely and quickly "NO schrades get out or have gotten out without a stamp. It has to be a fake" pretty comfident in there quality control are they? When examined through a loop it shows no signs of grinding or removal of any marks on the shield or blades. As said in my other post on the other group my grandfather had it and a couple more knives in a glass case on display for years before he passed away. or atleast as far back as I can remember
 
Taylor does not make Schrade knives and never has. They bought the trademarks and have other companies make knives for them stamped with the trademarks they bought, domestically and from the Pacific rim.

Your knife was most likely an SFO, Special Factory Order for a trapper supply, possibly identified by a special blade etch no longer present. Johnny Muskrat (Sears trapping catalog/furbuying 1920's-1950's) comes to mind, but not definate on that. Sears bought their knives almost exclusively from Kastor/Camillus from the early 1930's until circa 1940, then from Ulster 1941-1946, then Ulster/Schrade until Albert Baer acquired the rest of the Camillus stocks circa 1963. Other hardware jobbers also ordered SFOs for the hunting/trapping market.

And yes, Ulster/Schrade would provide you with an order of knives with special or no tang stamps and special shield or blade etches on request. Many examples of Ulster and Schrade (both owned by the Baer brothers) knives exist with the aforementioned variations.
 
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I had thought that even though they were special ordered they would still mark the tang themselves since it is done (or thought it was) before the hardening process. So would everyone agree that this is a schrade then and approx age? Is it in-fact a improved muskrat?
I did see no signs of sanding or remnents of any etching or machine marks
 
Etchings of this period were pretty light and not long-lived under use. Compare the knife to Ulster and Schrade examples and see if the construction and jigging match.

If you were a good customer of Albert's (as Sears was as were several large jobbers like Belknap), and ordered a dozen gross of knives at once, he would make you pretty much whatever you wanted. A run of blades with custom stamp or no stamp? No problem. Custom etch? Even cheaper than a stamp.
 
Codger, the dates you mention in post #4 might lead the original poster to think this knife is older than it is.
Handles look to be Delrin which dates it to no older than early 1960's. Please let me(us) know if i am wrong.
thanks, roland (on the "List" for the "Book")
 
Correct Roland. That is why I mentioned Camillus as a possible maker. I don't have knives of that pattern to compare, but Baer did turn a lot of Sears work to Camillus once he owned all of the stock circa 1963. Does it have the Swinden bolsters? Camillus did not use them.

Here is a Johnny Muskrat from the 1949 catalog (I don't have any of the Johnny Muskrat trapper catalogs so don't know when they quit using the name, Parker Frost used it in the 1970's, search ebay).

35lc8yc.jpg


Different knife, for sure, but an example of the muskrat pattern sold in 1949/50 by Sears under the Johnny Muskrat name. As mentioned, quite a few jobbers bought knives from Schrade. Without identifying stamp or etch, it would be hard to say who ordered the OP knife (if it indeed is a Schrade).
 
Well, Stupid question but where or how would I know if it had them. From the outside there are only three brass pins seen in the pic. No pins on the ends just the caps with nothing on the outside just solid. Looking on the ends you can see a pin but it does not go through just stops before the blade
 
Jc, i'd like to help you but i don't understand what you are asking. Can you rephrase your question and explain what "them" refers to ?
roland
 
jcmjr said:
Well, Stupid question but where or how would I know if it had them. From the outside there are only three brass pins seen in the pic. No pins on the ends just the caps with nothing on the outside just solid. Looking on the ends you can see a pin but it does not go through just stops before the blade
Click to expand...

That sounds like the Swinden Key construction. I did not see bolster pins in the photo, but they are more apparent in hand if they are there. SOmewhere I have a copy of the patent and a broken down 897UH photo, but I have once again crashed a computer and lost a lot of files. Larry V (LRV) probably has copies he can post. He doesn't crash computers. He rebuilds them bionic, better and stronger, like Lee Majors.

Here. I think this shows the keyhole slots in the liners that the bolster tommy pins fit into.
euo83n.jpg
 
yes there are no visible pins at all from the outside of the knife on the bolster ends. Thanks for clarifying that Codger_64. Sounds more and more like a Schrade...just unmarked or light stamp.
 
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