Any news on S90V - wich manufacterers and wich models

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koolstof

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Sep 21, 2002
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I cannot get the S90V wich should hold exeptional qualities. Should I postpone the purchase of a new blade in order to give this alledged supersteel a try. Are the praises regarding that steel exagerated? Wich are the flaws/shortages. Any particular models and/or brands I should keep an eye on? Comments of actual owners of this sort of blade... I'm eager to find out if it is that good. I only want real high-end blades, actual costs are not an issue if they bring exeptional qualities in return. The ideal situation would be a blade that does not have any flaws, in order to make it suited for all duties, so a comprimise of what you are looking for is superfleous. That's a pipe-dream, I know, but I still want to get as close as possible :-)
 
Just to clarify, S90V has been out for quite a while -- it used to be called 420V. The new "supersteel" everyone is raving about is S30V. Is that the one you're interested in?

Joe
 
yeah ... sure... I'm game for anything that has excellent qualities. Please do tell me more of S30V. Wich is better: S90V (I think it is that one) or S30V. I browsed almost every knife in the catalogue of www.knifecenter.com (that site is really user-friendly and transparent and in my opinion but a few quality knives escape their attention), The knives made of this two steels are very limited, it almost seems that manufacturers have restraints to use either S90V (wich exist already quite while but seem to hold considerable advantages) as S30V (I think this kind of steel is a tad less high-end than S90V). If those two steels really offer particular advantages then why aren't they more widely used by more manufacturers. One would think there's plenty a demand for blades wich hold exceptional bonusses, may blade-lovers seem more than willing to pay the extra bucks for that little extra quality. At least, I am and I'm far from rich ;-) just eager to come as close to perfection as possible (yes, I'm ambitious and I do realize that there is the fair chance of being dissapointed, that my expectations are just to high, but all of this will not keep me for making (vain?) attempts to come as close to perfection.

Wich knives deserve recommendation, made of either S90V (this kind I prefer because alledgedly can show of superb quality, if I'm wrong please correct me) or S30V. Where can I learn more about this blades and what is a good place to purchase them?

I have read on the site of the British Knife Collectors Guild that the right kind of Damascus offers a maximum of assets to even the must demanding of users. Is their any kind of steel that surpasses the others, should a particular kind of steel be treasured for it's rare advantages? Does more expensive automatically mean better quality (Personally I do not give a damn for nicely finished knives with intricate designs, I want a knife that prooves itself solely on technical merrits; I want a tool that excels!)

Any ideas regarding my (pipe?) dream are very welcome, if I cannot get perfection, a maximum of information why exactly I cannot reach it will keep me happy. I can stand to make the inherent comprimise wich each blade/steel seems to hold but I want to know WHY, a well-educated decision discriminates a real knife-nut from the others, I think. The standard is not your wealth but how you deal with your modest resources. A very wealthy guy can buy them all, in that way he is assured to own the best of everything, but where is the sport in that :-)
 
I cannot speak to S30V because I've never used it. I do however have a Phil Wilson fillet knife in S90V. My understanding is, S30V is a bit more corrosion resistant, and S90V may have a slight advantage in edge holding.

All that said, the kife I'm using almost refuses to dull. I've cleaned 60 or 70 small fish with very tough skin, and at the end the knife would still shave hair off my arm. Compared to anything I've used in the past, that's incredible. As to it being more easily corroded, I've got no S30V to compare it with. But, I've noticed none so far, no pitting or discoloration with normal clean up after use. These are very remarkable steels by any measure.
 
Here's the reader's digest version:

S90V is the most wear-resistant stainless cutlery steel going. The reason why manufacturers don't use it is because it chews up belts and is just too difficult to work in a production environment. So S90V is used strictly by custom makers, and again due to the difficulty in working it, it's expensive. Beyond incredible wear resistance, it's got good toughness for a high-end stainless steel, which is to say, nothing to write home about.

S30V is the newest hot steel, it's said to have wear resistance that is outstanding (though not as good as S90V), and incredible toughness, beyond all high-end stainless steels, reaching into the toughness levels of some of the less-tough tool steels like D-2 or even A-2. In addition, it's easy enough to work for production manufacturers to use. Great wear resistance plus sound toughness and good machineability make this potentially the best all-around stainless steel going.

Joe
 
It seems that I was reasonably close with my expectations of these two steels. My preference however goes out to S90V... What can I say, I'm all to often seduced by extremes. If anyone has helpfull information for purchasing this kind of blade and perhaps even the complete specs of a real obtainabale knife, I would feel like a kid in a candystore :-) as I'm very reluctant to try out my modest sharpening skills on highend knives, the edge holding those steels and S90V in particular is very attractive and should reduce the frequency of times I have to appeal to a pro to preserve my keen edge.

The information supplied so far was really helpfull, now I understand the limited use by manufacturers of a steel that nevertheless has a great deal to offer. As of know you can considder me as a buyer to be of a knife made from these promising steels. My only concern is wich model and wich brand I should take... Can anyone help me?

oh, if I'm not mistaken, I think that Spyderco (it seems you just cannot get wrong with this famous brand...) will use S30V for some of their future knives, is it worth my while to wait this rumor out. Spyderco Sal, please enlighten me :-)

One thing is certain, when I do grab hold of a superb S90V specimen I will aim for a really sharp edge, as I understand this steel has what it takes to support extreme sharpness. I can hardly wait, this will haunt me untill I made up my mind what to buy actally :-)
 
koolstof,

I cannot recall any factory knife made from CPM 420V/S90V. As mentioned above, you are looking at totally different economics when you are making a mass production run targeted at a less informed consumer versus the custom knifemaker who makes a knife specifically for one individual.

Is CPM S90V the ultimate steel? It really depends on what you want your knife to do and what you expect from it. Do you need the stainless properties? Do you need ultimate wear resistance? Do you need huge stress and impact tolerance? What do you want the knife to do? How will you use it?

That being said, I see CPM S30V as a compromise of several qualities which provides a very good average purpose blade steel. Yes, it is better then BG-42 which I have found significantly better in my personal use then ATS-34 (in fact my 154CM blades perform better then ATS-34 which I attribute to better heat treat, not some mystical steel quality).

If you don't require stainless steels, I would suggest CPM 3V as an alternative. For more specialized needs, CPM 10V and CPM 15V may be what you need.

All that being said, you can find very good custom knives made in all the steels mentioned in my post for around $250 US. This includes ~7 inch field knives, kitchen knives, or with a little more money folders from well known makers. If you wanted to spring for a really good tool folder, Kit Carson could make you a knife in any of the steels mentioned - just tell him which one and send somewhere around $400 to $450 or so when the knife is completed (actual cost depends on specifics so, please use those numbers as a guide, not a quote).

Now, whether ~$250 US for a fixed blade or ~$450 for a folder is out of your price range, is something only you can decide. I discovered a long time ago, that buying a more expensive knife that works is much better then buying several less expensive knives that break or just don't work well.

As a final note, a custom knife will take longer to get so, be prepared for the wait. Good knives are certainly worth it. If you can accurately describe what you want and how you will use the knife, a good custom maker will provide a knife that will blow you away if all you have known is factory mass produced stuff.

The Custom and Knife Reviews and Test forums will attest to the qualities of a good custom knife and the makers who produce them.
 
wow, jesus, this all continues to strike me with humble amazement. I did't think the world of knives was THAT extensivly big and complex. A realize that a tradeoff seems unavoidable as there is no model/type of steel that has it all. Let me elaborate on my specific needs, I will make my list of demands almost surely to big. I seems highly unlikely I will find a knife that will meet ALL of my needs, however I feel I should make sure. Imagine that the perfect knife for me really existed and I was missing out on it, the very tought makes my skin crawl :-)

Here is my list of what I'm looking for in ONE specific blade, I know it is unlikely that all my needs are met but please guide me as close as possible...

*I prefer a folder, tough not as stressproof as a fixed, it can easily be concealed and offers more pratical carrying options, I want a knife that invites me to carry it...

*corrosion resistance is not that important as I will closely monitor the condition of my knife and do anything I can to maintain its "like-new" condition.

*Nevertheless I made myself a promise to give sharpening edges myself to room to prove its value, I'm extremely reluctant to press my luck with my favourite high end folder. it is very likely that I will return the knife to the maker to have sharpened or have a local professional to work my valuable edge. If he does it good enough, I take everything a got on regular intervals to him. I'm willing to neglect to joy of sharpening as lons as I get a real good edge, If I didn't do it myself, too bad, at least I have a performant blade. To put this all in other words, I would like exceptional edge retention, the amount of effort one has to put in to give the edge the qualities I desire is not important, I will leave the pro to see to it that my edge remains above average.

*Of course, what is a highend blade without a matching handle, I hate wood or any natural material, most of all I find them ugly. i want a durable handle with outstanding grip, in order to allow me to get my knife to exactly "obey" me...

*The knife itself would be EDC and up to most of the different cutting needs, I know that if I look that quality in one knife it is unlikely that it will really excell in one specific purpose but good enough is good enough, this knife should be usefull in the first place.

*I seldomly, if ever, have need for a knife that can withstand heavy impacts, I rarely go out camping and if I have a really tough cutting job I will try to use gear that is designed for this kind of use... I do not expect my pocket folder to take a beating without ceding. Any job that is to big for this knife will have to wait.

*One hand operation and rapid deployment are desirable but not essential.

*A lock you can really trust to block the knife in its desired position is needed. If I deploy my Al Mar SERE-2K, I notice that it will barely due to stress, it is as if I was holding a fixed blade, once locked it is blocked too. This quality means a lot to me. If a lock can offer me a folder that feels like a sturdy fixed blade and still protect me from accidently closing, this would be a strong asset for the blade in question. But I realize that the principal purpose for any lock is to protect your o so vulnerable fingers, if it does that then that's is good enough for me.

*I would like to try out a combo edge, this inherently poses some sharpening nuisance but let my pro worry about that and let me worry about how to pay him.

*This should beyond questioning but I want my folder to be heat-treated in the apprpriate way, allowing the benefits to manifest themselves and reducing the undisirable qualities of my knife. Perfection is a vain idea but it won't stop me from getting as close a possible

*Let us say that if an actual knife seems satisfactory to me, then the price is a question of time, I WILL pay it if that offers me a splendid blade that will cut anything I want it to, when and how I desire it. And if it also does not bow down to adverse working condition, if it is a blade with balls (I guess Freud would say that I want the blade to be superperformant because I realize that I myself do not approach anything that even ditantly ressembles perfection, but what the heck, if something like a blade can offer me a sense of being a more complete individual, then way fight what may be the solution I was looking for *grin*... then almost any amount of cash seems fair.

*Custom blade or factory blade, I am quite indifferent as to who made it as long as it has its unusual qualities.

*I have yet to determine what steel I want... S90V seems reasonable (I value edge retention a lot). Does it outperform Super Damascus. Are their any valid alternatives that meet my needs? i really would not know and to be honest, I await your insights :-) to be honest S90V has already earned itself a favourite place in my head and heart, this could very well be what I'm looking for. Please advise...

*Can somebody please learn me about the tradeoff CPM-3V, CPM-10V, CPM-15V, what do this steels have to offer me? I must admit that this is the first time I hear anything of those steels, so any information is much sought after. What steel will most closely meet my demands, perhaps some steel hold qualities I was unaware of, maybe they hold an uncommon quality to could make the difference to me. Thanks for your considderation. I do not know what I would do if I couldn't fall back on this superforum...
 
S30V is tougher; S90V holds an edge forever. But don't, Don't, DON'T let an S90-V blade ever get dull. There's no way you're going to sharpen the thing unless:

1) You're really, Really good at sharpening and have top-notch equipment.

or

2) You give up and send it back to it's source to have it resharpened.

Either way, it's a real pain in the a$$!

And oh, yes, the skill of the knifemaker in developing an optimum edge and heat-treating the blade will have a far greater effect than will the type of steel.
 
OK, please dont be offended, but it sounds like your choice of S90V is based not on real world expectations or use, but an idealistic craving for the extreme, for absolutely the best, for perfection, and being a perfectionist myself, i understand your desire to have the penultimate steel, when in reality, from what others have said, you might be better served opting for S30V. Mostly, i think, because choosing S30V as a blade steel will allow you to choose from a wider variety of knives, since it is more widley used, and i think that most would agree that the particular knife you end up getting is more important than the very slight differences between these 2 equally excellent steels. You will NOT be disappointed with S30V!

Now, i DO know of at least one production knife that uses S90V, its the ltd. edition Microtech LCC D/A auto, and might i just say, it is an EXCELLENT knife. Truly nearing custom quality, built like a tank, and the S90V version can be had for under $300. It has one of the sturdiest, thickest, and finest liner locks i have ever seen, and that includes strong knives by makers such as Carson, JW Smith and the like. And, the fact that its a double action auto just makes it even more appealing. Having said this, in my opinion, you would also do VERY well to consider getting yourself a Chris Reeve Large Sebenza with S30V. This knife is widely regarded as being the toughest, finest folding knife available, its not a custom knife, but its made to incredibly high standards and can hold it own with most customs quality and strength-wise. Many people, speaking to its incredibly thick, strong frame lock have reffered to the Sebenza as the closest a folder can get to the inherent toughness of a good fixed blade.

So, while you MIGHT find a decent knife in S90V, youre more likely to find one that you like in S30V and honestly, in the real world, i seriously doubt you will EVER see any difference between the performance of these 2 equally fine steels, dont allow yourself, in your quest for perfection, to insist on S90V to the exclusion of the many fine knives available with the still excellent, still super-tough, S30V.
 
I can relate to your views, what's more, I very much appreciate your critical approach. I do not considder myself to be flawless, any critics are more than welcome, I will actually revaluate my beliefs and at least make a serious effort to question myself.

The Chris Reeve Sebenza seems to harvest lots of acclaim, this is blade I would take into consideration. Anyone can tell if they are avialable in either S30V or S90V-steel. And if so, where exactly. If not, do the people of Chris Reeve have plans to use those steels? I eagerly await your comments :-)
 
I believe Microtech made 100 manual SOCOM Elites with the S90V blade steel. All of these have been sold out as far as I can tell. If you are lucky enough enough to find one, it will cost you a pretty penny.

Yes, the Sebenza is available with S30V. I believe Chris Reeve worked with Crucible to develop this steel. On the downside, there are a lot of critics that say Chris Reeve could make the S30V steel with a harder RC, and it would perform better at the higher RC, but I am going to leave that one to the experts. Big D1
 
Any of your insights of steel types that should be closely followed in your opinion are welcome. And yes, I would gladly settle with S30V. That Sebenza sounds mighty tempting... My interest is very much alive! Thanks to everybody who offers me support in my knife-(mis)adventures :-) I can only hope that I will gain the credibility and the knowledge to be consulted myself :-)
 
koolstof, its just simply a handle I use here in the forums. While I was growing up, a few of my friends would call me Big D, and since somebody else was registered with the handle Big D, I just added the 1 to it because I am #1 at least in my mind.:D

The Sebenza would be an excellent choice although they are very expensive. I have owned three Sebenza's with BG-42 blade steel over the years, and they are perfection at its finest. The lock is a frame type lock that is very secure, and it is the most secure lock that I have ever handled. The lock-up is tight as a bank vault with zero blade play horizontally or vertically. If you get one with any blade play, there is something wrong with it. Unfortunately, the ergonomics of the Sebenza have caused me to sell the ones that I have owned in the past. It's a love, hate relationship really. I love everything about the Sebenza but the ergonomics. Will I break down and buy another? Most definitely!!! Big D1
 
Haha, that's the spirit, if you considder yourself a winner with enough conviction, i think it will advantage your winning odds ;-)
 
Originally posted by koolstof
*corrosion resistance is not that important as I will closely monitor the condition of my knife and do anything I can to maintain its "like-new" condition.


*I have yet to determine what steel I want... S90V seems reasonable (I value edge retention a lot).
Click to expand...


For maximmum edge holding without regard to cost or corrosion resistance, CPM15V may be the way to go. On the other hand CPM15V has very low toughness, so CPM10V may be more prctical, at the expense of some edge holding (everything is a trade-off).


*Can somebody please learn me about the tradeoff CPM-3V, CPM-10V, CPM-15V, what do this steels have to offer me? I must admit that this is the first time I hear anything of those steels, so any information is much sought after. What steel will most closely meet my demands, perhaps some steel hold qualities I was unaware of, maybe they hold an uncommon quality to could make the difference to me. Thanks for your considderation. I do not know what I would do if I couldn't fall back on this superforum...
Click to expand...

Check out Crucible's Site -


http://www.crucibleservice.com/cutlery.cfm#


The steels in the charts are hotlinked to their data sheets.




-Frank
 
Thanks to all for the help I need so much!!!!!! I don't seem to have bought a knife that lets me down so far and with your help, maybe, just maybe I can keep it this way...

What does CPM-10V has in store for me? This kind of steel is completely alien to me, did I miss out on something that really cries out to be taken into considderation? Please enlighten me...
 
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