Any NYC Local sources for quality blade steel?

A

alexworking

Joined
Feb 7, 2015
Messages
6
Hello I have been contemplating hand making a couple 4" blade knives for my wife and I after years of using and carrying Mora knives. But I have been unable to find anywhere in NYC to buy a piece of steel to start from.

Thinking I want a Crucible/CPM or other PM steel, 3V specifically.

I have two issues with mail/online order, being that I only want a small piece to try my hand, the shipping costs will nearly double my cost. Then also I have a problem with mail being stolen and no one home during the day to receive or sign for.

I can pick up from anywhere in the general NYC area but I don't own a car which is ironic since so many big name steel mills are within just a couple hours drive!

Perhaps there really is some retail source for good blade steel or some kind maker wouldn't mind sharing some with me? I can pay cash, PayPal or credit.

Thank you, Alex
 
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V36

Answers to a student are different than to machinist
With members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or neighbour.
Join our community;fill out your profile with (Country, State, City), age, education, work and hobbies so we get a sense of who you are.

Basics
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-PDF
http://jubilee101.com/subscription/pdf/Tools/Making-Simple-Knives---12pages.pdf

Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

Things I Advise New Makers Against-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Wheeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/956343-Damascus-integral-tag-along

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, organized, available inexpensive.


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save

The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
Great title, but NOT gospel.
Forging is NOT necessary; file and grind (stock removal)

"Goop Quench" is Bullsh*t
Back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for 1084

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spikes, start with a new known steel
Good heat treat needs accurate temperature control and full quench
Proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo is inexpensive and quench in Canola

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders plans are now free on the web


Video

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it daily for 10 days http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it daily for 10 days http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many videos are available, some better than others

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
Paul Long's sheath work & videos are recommended, but advanced-with inlays, tooling and machine stitching

Green Pete's Free Video
Make a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat
Use a piece of known 1084 steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools
"Green Pete" posted it free
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too – search knifemaking torrents

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

Videos for rent,read the reviews, Some good, some bad, expect to wait months and there have been no new videos in years.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking


Knife Design:
Think thin, small, simple and fixed
Forget swords, 1/4” thick stock, saw-teeth, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife

Look at hundreds of photos
Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx

http://knifemaking.altervista.org/index_disegni_en.html

Start with a drawing and post it before you work on steel, we love photos and can comment before you start
French curves, graph paper and erasers are vital tools
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810

Then a cardboard cutout template & with handles, pins and such
Use playdough to shape a handle, good handles are not flat

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums



Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Nick Wheeler- Hand sanding 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I4x4QLpfnk

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes is useless for knives
Buy new known 1/8” annealed blade steel
Forget lawnmower blades ,files, railroad spikes and other unknown junkyard steels
For the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use known good steel
You will spend more money on sandpaper or soda pop than you will for steel

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, Elmax plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheap & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160
His telephone service is better than his website.

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating $10 or $15 for perfect results

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs
http://www.buckknives.com/about-knives/heat-treating/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment to HT themselves
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 CPM-s35vn Elmax, and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 due to minimum charges


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget Goop Quench and Motor oil

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type
Explanation and classification oil speeds
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well -if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095, but use fast oils Parks 50 & Houghton Houghto Quench K
If you use water or brine, expect broken blades

Hot steel beats plastic, Don't quench in plastic pail

Glue – Epoxy
Use new slow setting 30 min high strength epoxy to attach handles and seal out moisture
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work
prep, measure, mix are key in gluing.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best
Ensure the surface is clean including fingerprints, wear vinyl or nitrile gloves
Use Acetone or Blasting
Don't over-clamp.A “glue starved joint” is weak

West Systems G Flex http://www.westsystem.com/ss/g-flex-epoxy/
Find it locally http://www.westsystem.com/ss/where-to-buy/
Brownell's Acraglas
JB Weld-leaves a grey line


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it by hand with files and abrasive like the Green Pete video.
Use 1084 instead of a file, spheroid annealed steel is butter soft

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Filing jigs
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330

Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
Tracking problems are usually solved with belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder
Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
There are some things that need to be modified
http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62944
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_e1p6D-UyycWHd2V0VMTFVJMDQ/edit

NWG No Weld Grinder $25 plans
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
Every maker has a preference, new belts come out all the time, search for recent info
Ceramic, trizact and structured belts are expensive and have long life. Aluminium oxide are cheap and wear quickly
Some belts have rigid backing, J-flex have soft backing and can blend curves.
Blaze and Cubitron are popular


VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you think
Maska steel pulleys, plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to 1/2 the price of a sealed NEMA 4 VFD like a KB Electronics KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts, a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with fine instant control.

NEMA 1 VFD’s metallic dust intrusion will smoke it.


Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you some use 1700 RPM at double speed.
Make sure it has a foot base for the KMG and NWG, a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with $100 shipping to Canada I save $ on used motors

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.


VFD
KBAC-27D
http://www.kbelectronics.com/Variable_Speed_AC_Drives_Inverters/AC_Drives_NEMA_4X.html
http://www.kbelectronics.com/manuals/kbda_manual.pdf
Use the Distributor Locator to find a local source, online sources may be cheaper.

There are cheaper, but the only VFD I found that runs a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC-27D

It is NEMA 4 sealed
Good community and company support, manuals, diagrams, photos and settings.

Travis W reports running 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.

If you can't breathe, nothing else matters.

Wearing a mask and glasses on the top of your head doesn't Count.

The minimum I use are silicone half masks with P100 Filter
The soft silicone masks fit better
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use VOC & P100 combo cartridge for acetone and glue fumes.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes of face get fitted in person

Shave, test the fit every time.

For beards
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Search

This searches BF well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

Visit a shop in person
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1166688-How-to-get-a-shop-invite

V36 December 2014
Countavatar.jpg
 
Aldo Bruno (NEw Jersey Steel Baron) is in Hawthorne, NJ
 
Thanks for the replies but hawthtorne NJ isnt local to NYC at all
And his shipping will double the cost of anything from their scrap/overstock
I cant imagine so big a place with all these artsy folks and no one sells cutlery steel in small stocks
Expecting too much but money is tight to try a new hobby

Alex
 
23 miles isnt local?? you city folk sure have a funny way of looking at things ;0)
 
Alezworking, I know that you want to avoid mail order but Jantz knife supply and Pop's knife supply sell 3 foot pieces of steel for not very much. Why don't you ask a friend to use his mailing address to get your steel or a friend with a P.O.box? Just a suggestion. Larry
 
There are 3 grainger industrial supply stores in the NYC area. Since these are going to be your first knives pick up a piece of O-1.

If you are so worried about someone stealing a piece of barstock and the shipping costs have you also considered that using a CPM steel will most likely require you to pay to have the blades heat treated and pay shipping both ways.
 
If you can swing it why dont you take the subway over to jersey city and attend the ECCKS this weekend? maybbe you could score some steel at the show?
 
Victor Machinery Exchange, 56 Bogart St., Brooklyn, NY. 800-723-5359. I don't think they have CPM stuff but they have excellent prices on O1 & A2. Hope this helps.
 
Aldo usually makes an appearance at the show, why not contact him and inquire about meeting him there and buying a piece from him?? No shipping!! :rolleyes:
 
alexworking said:
Thanks for the replies but hawthtorne NJ isnt local to NYC at all
And his shipping will double the cost of anything from their scrap/overstock
I cant imagine so big a place with all these artsy folks and no one sells cutlery steel in small stocks
Expecting too much but money is tight to try a new hobby

Alex
Click to expand...

John Katt said:
23 miles isnt local?? you city folk sure have a funny way of looking at things ;0)
Click to expand...



You have no idea how close you are to one of the best suppliers there is.


I have to have steel shipped from there to here, plus shipping at Canadian rates (high) plus customs and import fees, plus a 10% hit on our currency, plus currency exchange fees, plus 13% sales tax...plus plus plus


If you can't swing steel, sandpaper is going to kill you.




Amazon ships Starrett flat-ground 01 and A2 anywhere.
If everyone is out of the house working, you can get it shipped to work instead of home.
 
Last edited:
Yep, I looked it up on a map as well. About 25 miles from NYC to Hawthorne New Jersey. Hell, San Antonio ALONE is more than 25 miles across. Get on over to Aldo and drop in and bug him. Rub his head for good luck!
 
Just for fun last night I looked up the subway maps for new york and new jersey, and there are 6 subway lines that come out of new york and pass through Secaucus junction, from there you transfer to something called the Main line and it takes you right into Hawthorn

Where there is a will there is a way ;0)

Now would all that mucking about be less then shipping to a P.O. box, no idea, but it does sound like a fun way to spend a day, a trip to New York has been on my bucket list for quite some time
 
To be fair, you don't have to pay $20-30 in bridge, tunnel and turnpike tolls to get to San Antonio and back. ;)
samuraistuart said:
Yep, I looked it up on a map as well. About 25 miles from NYC to Hawthorne New Jersey. Hell, San Antonio ALONE is more than 25 miles across. Get on over to Aldo and drop in and bug him. Rub his head for good luck!
Click to expand...
 
WoW........Didn't realize how bad I had it...driving 29 miles one way to work everyday for the last 30 years...Walking distance here is out to mailbox on the road and that's a half mile round trip....:eek:

And YES ^^^^ I too wish Aldo's was only 25 miles away....:thumbup:
 
OK, again thank you all for the interest and time and efforts spent on your replies, its heartening to see all the efforts put into answering my first post.

However I should have worded my question/topic differenty. I am looking for a way to buy a small piece (under 10"x2") of Crucible/CPM 3V or similar HIGH END steel, in NYC. Retail or privately. Maybe some kind maker lives out here and has some stock to spare?
I'm not sure just how small or large the market for these highest end steels might be, if I need to use mail order I will.
I am not looking for O-1, any knife I use will most definately be used for food prep and even kitchen use.
NYC and NJ are not one in the same. Travelling to NJ Steel Baron would be a half day trip and maybe 30$ fares, NJT doesnt accept MTA Unlimited. And to borrow a car and pay the outrageous tolls to make a small purchase would be silly.

I want a blade of the TOP of the line steel, which is how my interest began, reading/seeing the results 3V gives. A blade I wont worry about snapping but can stay good and sharp! However these retail in the hundreds, paying mostly for a name or someone elses time and effort.
Is my thinking wrong? I have most of the hand tools and a good corded drill already, so why not use the steel I want? The annealed hardness isnt much different. I dont want to buy some hugh hunk of metal and end up being unable to make anything usable out of it and feel like a fool.

Little background if anyone is still reading: I moved here to Queens NYC 4 years ago from Florida after getting married, Now my wife has been unable to work since December due to circumstances beyond our control (USCIS after my wifes green card was stolen from our locked mailbox within hours and months of run around and waiting for appointments after our local branch was closed) and I have been working 50-55 hour work weeks since to make up since. I left all my firearms(and my CCL) behind and feel naked without at least a blade. Last time I seriously shopped for a knife I bought a CM154 spring assist which isnt legal to carry here so I use Mora knives under 4" but want something that is really "my own"

Again, Thanks!
Alex
 
alexworking said:
OK, again thank you all for the interest and time and efforts spent on your replies, its heartening to see all the efforts put into answering my first post.

However I should have worded my question/topic differenty. I am looking for a way to buy a small piece (under 10"x2") of Crucible/CPM 3V or similar HIGH END steel, in NYC. Retail or privately. Maybe some kind maker lives out here and has some stock to spare?
I'm not sure just how small or large the market for these highest end steels might be, if I need to use mail order I will.
I am not looking for O-1, any knife I use will most definately be used for food prep and even kitchen use.
NYC and NJ are not one in the same. Travelling to NJ Steel Baron would be a half day trip and maybe 30$ fares, NJT doesnt accept MTA Unlimited. And to borrow a car and pay the outrageous tolls to make a small purchase would be silly.

I want a blade of the TOP of the line steel, which is how my interest began, reading/seeing the results 3V gives. A blade I wont worry about snapping but can stay good and sharp! However these retail in the hundreds, paying mostly for a name or someone elses time and effort.
Is my thinking wrong? I have most of the hand tools and a good corded drill already, so why not use the steel I want? The annealed hardness isnt much different. I dont want to buy some hugh hunk of metal and end up being unable to make anything usable out of it and feel like a fool.

Little background if anyone is still reading: I moved here to Queens NYC 4 years ago from Florida after getting married, Now my wife has been unable to work since December due to circumstances beyond our control (USCIS after my wifes green card was stolen from our locked mailbox within hours and months of run around and waiting for appointments after our local branch was closed) and I have been working 50-55 hour work weeks since to make up since. I left all my firearms(and my CCL) behind and feel naked without at least a blade. Last time I seriously shopped for a knife I bought a CM154 spring assist which isnt legal to carry here so I use Mora knives under 4" but want something that is really "my own"

Again, Thanks!
Alex
Click to expand...

I'm confused, is this a kitchen knife, or a stab someone because you cant Concealed carry knife ?


How about getting some experience on good usable steel before you go to the CPM steel.

Hand sanding that stuff is more difficult.

Try Amazon shipping some A2, get it sent to work.
 
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