any resolution on the ZT Elmax doubts?

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evosbu1

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I wanted to initially get the 561 when I was getting into knives but came across this video in my research some time ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulQzcYT9Dds

The 560 is tested at about 4:18 in the video.

After seeing that, I did Google research and came up with plenty of forum threads about ZT Elmax problems but with no specific details, the overwhelming majority of it was fanboy flame wars. So, I decided to just create my own thread with this video.

The video above shows obvious edge-retention problems with that 560's Elmax. Is edge-retention the main doubt behind the rumors or are there other problems? Where did the doubts originate? If its all simply rumor, how can you explain the above video? I'm not trying to challenge Elmax guys with such direct questions, I just really want to know as I'd like to own ZT in the future.
 
I for one never had any doubts about ZTs Elmax steel. I believe one or more people did reviews online saying there was problem than the whole" If its on the internet it must be true" thing took off. Just how I see it and feel you can and always could buy ZTs elmax with confidence
 
I have a ZT 0551 first run #0035 in elmax steel. I have also sharpened a ton of 0560's and can tell you there is nothing wrong with elmax. The newer runs were ran a bit harder too which would only increase the edge retention which in my experience is similar to S30V but tends to hold a higher degree of sharpness better. It is also a very tough stainless and even with drops onto concrete I've never seen chips.

Now, some things I would like to point out from the video that contributed to the results. First is the sharpening, it looks uneven and at a obtuse angle. If I had to guess given the blade thickness it's probably 25 degrees per side which would be like cutting with a steel "I" beam.

With poor geometry and a less than ideal sharpening it's easy to see why it did not perform in the test. And "screaming sharp" that blade was not.
 
Personally, if I wanted Elmax I would get it from either Busse or a custom maker. It wasn't exclusively a ZT problem, there were some isolated incidents with Lionsteel's Elmax, too.
 
People are crazy. Just enjoy your Elmax folks.
If you know how to sharpen it. It will last and last, not doubt about it.
 
ELMAX is a really good steel with very solid performance based on my own testing and experience with it.
 
No problems with ZT's ELMAX. It is a great steel, and performs well.
 
Elmax for me-- No Problem Have three of my own and those that I have sharpened for others are very happy with their knives.
 
I recently got a 801 and love it. Not a single problem with Elmax on it. My Kershaw Speedform 2 was also Elmax and aside from the design being terrible for a lefty it was great. The blade both took a good edge without an insane amount of work and aren't dulling easily.

Remember that people are quick to be vocal about their issues, but very slow to praise. I figure for every thread about a knife with a botched HT, there are 50 or more with perfect ones.

Also, one of the sharpeners here said that even with the ruined HT Elmax blades (caused from overheating while grinding) the whole knife wasn't ruined. It just needs sharpened once or twice to reveal non ruined steel and the knife will be good as new.
 
I know very little about metalurgy...but I will say this - you have a knife in your hands, go use it and form your own opinion! No one here uses a knife exactly like you do, and as such their opinion of how it performed may be entirely diffrent from the results garnered through your own use. That isn't meant as a dirogitory statment by the way, it is simply the best way I know of to answer your question. Since you asked though, I like how the ELMAX on my 0801 does, in fact it's in my pocket right now. :)
 
I have 2 blades in Elmax. A custom at 60 RC and a busse Both held an edge well and sharpened up easily
 
I have two ZT's in Elmax and both of them are outstanding as far as sharpness, edge retention and ease of sharpening....
 
Elmax is an excellent steel, but any steel can have heat treat problems or sharpening problems. For example, a wire edge left from poor sharpening technique could have caused the issues with the video mentioned.

There did seem to be a run of problems with ZT's Elmax for a while, some reported by knowledgeable people. I don't think those problems have ever been explained. But the steel itself is incredibly good, and you've seen some of the most knowledgeable people on this forum attest to it.

My ZT 0560's Elmax has been exceptionally good.
 
Are you going to be cutting 8 feet of rope into
One inch pieces.

No....

Get it. Enjoy it.

It's not a light saber.
 
If there was a problem with Elmax...it was years ago, and most likely was concerned with a small batch of blades that did not receive the full heat-treating and ended up softer than spec'd. Not to worry. Elmax is a good steel.
 
I have had good and bad experiences with elmax from ZT. My issues were on a 0560. My knife seemed to dull rather quickly and honestly it wasnt used for much more than a letter opener and package opener. It had a very toothy edge from the factory. It didnt chip but rather looked like the edge was rolling. I am pretty good with my apex sharpener and for the life of me I could not get the edge back on it. I also was not happy to see that the edge was asymmetrically ground which made sharpening with anything other than a stone or ceramic rod a chore. It ended up getting a new blade and I sold it before I had a chance to use it. Now that was a very early 0560 if that means anything.

My second ZT with an elmax blade was a 0801. It seems to hold an edge really well for how much I used it. It also touched up on a ceramic rod much easier than I remembered the 0560. IMHO there are good and bad reviews for nearly every single knife you will find. There are plenty of people who say Chris Reeve runs his steel too soft. And countless others who counter that and say they are superlative examples of edged tooling. I have no doubt that there have been a few ZT blades in elmax that have not met expectations. But I dont think it is every knife nor do I think its really as big of an issue as some you tube personalities would like people to believe.

Apparently the theory is that ZT being new to using elmax may have burned the edge on a few knives when sharpening them. This to me is easy to believe as my experience is that elmax is incredibly abrasion resistant. But like mentioned by someone else reprofiling the blade and exposing some fresh steel should alleviate the problem while it will reduce the longevity of the knife by removing that metal to get to the good stuff. Bottom line I dont think there is any higher amount of problematic elmax blades in the ZT lineup than other companies using that steel. And really the part of reprofiling to get to fresh steel is not even needed. If it aint right, send it to kai and it will be made right. I know people want their knife right from the moment it is pulled from the box but there is little they can do until the knife is used to test the edge for retention. But either way, your covered by the best warranty in the business.
 
I saw somebody else doing egde retension tests on rope with zt elmax and also didn't end with good results. Which is making me think there is something to that. What it is idk. Never used the steel so can't say for sure. But it's strange that it's happening in more than one person's testing of it. I thought i heard something about zt elmax chipping too recently. I was actually looking at zt's in elmax but these edge retension videos have kinda stopped my search. I've heard good things about other companies using elmax though. You"ll never really know for sure until you use it.
 
I'm not seeing any problem with Elmax. Lots of plans for it in the future. Great stuff for sure.
 
Hey op I made a thread asking pretty much the exact same thing last year and the responses I got were overwhelmingly positive. I think if this ever was an actual problem it was an extremely isolated one, and has been somewhat immortalized by a few youtube videos made years ago when the 0560 first came out.

I personally got an 0560 and tbh I haven't done much cutting with it because it is a bit big for me to edc, but I will say the knife itself is freaking awesome. Don't be scared away by a few people who may or may not even know what the heck they're talking about (or could simply have too high of expectations).

Here's a link the thread I made, don't know if it's one you came across in your research or not: link
 
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