Any samurai sword experts in the house?

[WillB]

I had read that during WW2 the Japanese often took authentic 16th and 17th century samurai swords and cut them down. Toward later in the war, they didn't have metal to make swords of the length and such they wanted, mostly for officers, and cut down many beautiful swords and put new handles on them.

Later in the war, they, melted many swords for bullets. Some families managed to hide their heirlooms, but the population were brain washed and did what they were told. That's what I have read regarding the history of these swords. The second part sounds less likely to me.

Can someone confirm or deny? I m sure some of you have read the 47th Samurai by Stephen Hunter, in which the basis of the book is based around such a sword that was very rare sword that was cut down during WW2 and is mentioned as not uncommon practice. Of course it was a work of fiction, though Hunter seems to do his research, at least in his other books that are more gun centered, a topic I know more about.

Thanx

 

[Triton]

I had read that during WW2 the Japanese often took authentic 16th and 17th century samurai swords and cut them down. Toward later in the war, they didn't have metal to make swords of the length and such they wanted, mostly for officers, and cut down many beautiful swords and put new handles on them.

Later in the war, they, melted many swords for bullets. Some families managed to hide their heirlooms, but the population were brain washed and did what they were told. That's what I have read regarding the history of these swords. The second part sounds less likely to me.

Can someone confirm or deny? I m sure some of you have read the 47th Samurai by Stephen Hunter, in which the basis of the book is based around such a sword that was very rare sword that was cut down during WW2 and is mentioned as not uncommon practice. Of course it was a work of fiction, though Hunter seems to do his research, at least in his other books that are more gun centered, a topic I know more about.

Thanx

Well, I'll certainly not put myself forward as an expert on the subject, but yes, there have certainly been old blade found in shin-gunto mounts. There have also been old tachis that were shortened and eventually found their way into shin-gunto mounts. Some of said swords even found their way back to the United States following World War II. I've never heard the one about melting the swords down for bullets, that seems rather unlikely. The quality of shin-gunto swords did decrease as the war went on but so far as I know they were made right up to 1945.

These days the fantasy of finding an ancient blade in shin-gunto mounts seems to be one of the driving forces behind selling shin-gunto swords (and fakes of them) on ebay.

 

[WillB]

Well, I'll certainly not put myself forward as an expert on the subject, but yes, there have certainly been old blade found in shin-gunto mounts. There have also been old tachis that were shortened and eventually found their way into shin-gunto mounts. Some of said swords even found their way back to the United States following World War II. I've never heard the one about melting the swords down for bullets, that seems rather unlikely. The quality of shin-gunto swords did decrease as the war went on but so far as I know they were made right up to 1945.

These days the fantasy of finding an ancient blade in shin-gunto mounts seems to be one of the driving forces behind selling shin-gunto swords (and fakes of them) on ebay.

Thanx, that sees to confirm at least some of what I read. Bullets being lead, the melting part didn't make sense. If anyone else has firm answers on the above, please add.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The main destruction of swords came after the Japanese offered up their surrender. The American troops were given orders to seize and destroy any arms they were able to, including swords. This was probably one of the greatest travesties in history for the collector, as many fine blades were lost. I recall seeing an old black and white photograph of an American soldier standing in front of an enormous mound of swords that was taller than he was. Among those pieces were some very unusual swords the likes of which we would rarely see today, if ever, and would probably be likely to be called bizarre fakes if shown to a modern collector.

 

[Rich S]

The data I have from both Japanese and US sources estimate that only about 10-15%
of shingunto swords are found with ancestral blades. They were not melted down
to make bullets - have never heard that one from any source. The US did collect
and destroy thousands of swords after the war. Some former Japanese soldiers
and families gave their swords to GI's rather than have them destroyed. But several
of the top Japanese sword historians/experts convinced the US occupation folks
NOT to destroy many swords and consider them as cultural and historically important
art. That group eventually became the NBTHK. It was illegal for Japanese to privately
own swords until about 1954; even today they are highly regulated and require licenses
from the government to own in Japan. That applies only to truly, hand forged swords -
true Nihonto. Even today it is illegal to own/import machine made or non-traditionally
made swords in Japan. Hope this helps.

Rich S
The Japanese Sword Index
http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm

 

[akadave2]

I have a blade by a 17th century smith named Kanemasa. This blade is dated to c.a 1661 and is in a military sheath (or Saya) with leather weather cover but the other mountings are traditional and very old. Its even still in very good polish.

So yes they carried ancestoral blades into battle and old blades that were purchased for that matter but the bulk Im sure were a mixture of oil quenched Gunto, semi-traditionally made Gendai and pure traditional Gendai blades.