Anybody forge bowies/fighters using M2 steel?

Keith Montgomery

Keith Montgomery

Joined
May 9, 2000
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I know this is a high alloy steel that isn't the easiest to forge, but I am interested in knowing if any of you steel bashers will make big knives in M2.
 
I had used some M2 in the past that an owner of a steel supply company gave me.


I wouldn't want to try and forge it. With no "scientific" data to back it up....my feeling about this steel was that it makes a good hunting type knife....I'd stay away from it on Bowies.
 
M2 is a really difficult steel to forge and the heat treating process for HSS steels is usually better done in a controlled vacum oven than in a forge. As the steel tends to be brittle, is would also be unsuited to larger knives.

I have used it for years to make smaller knives and the occasional folder. It is fine grained and makes a super cutting tool. The steel is extremely bad about rusting.

But there's probably somebody out there who forges swords out of the stuff... it's a big world. :o
 
Keith, One of the first knife making books I got "The Hand Forged Knife" written by Karl Schroen dealt mainly with forging stainless steels and high speed tool steel. There was a mention in it about M-2 but I can't remember much more than that. You could give Karl a call, here's a link with his phone number: http://www.sonic.net/~kerry/schroenknives.html Be aware if you try calling him he loves to talk....... :D
 
Kevin,

You say you have made a lot of blades out of M2.
I agree it must make an excellent cutting tool, we see this with milling cutters and lathe tool bits, reamers etc. They are brittle yes, but they are hardened to about 65 HRC.
You say it is not advisable for larger knives because of the brittle factor.
If however, you were to harden it to only 58 HRC or so would that not go some way to eliminating the brittleness or is that just in the nature of the steel?
Just asking because I am in fact making a 6" blade hunting knife for a buddy, the M2 was his request but if it is not a good idea I think he should be informed. :eek:
Any comments?
Thanks
 
miden said:
Kevin,

If however, you were to harden it to only 58 HRC or so would that not go some way to eliminating the brittleness or is that just in the nature of the steel?
Just asking because I am in fact making a 6" blade hunting knife for a buddy, the M2 was his request but if it is not a good idea I think he should be informed. :eek:
Any comments?
Thanks
Click to expand...

Once you have M-2 at 58 RC, it's not any better than L-6 or 52100 at edge holding, and still more brittle(WAY less stronge), expensive, and prone to rust. Basically, there's no advantage. The advantage with M2 is a small blade at 62-64 RC. - very wear resistant, and strength isn't much of an issue. There's a reason you don't see it used much for knives larger than 4". You may get away with m2 on a 4.5" hunting knife, but why 6"? That's rather long for skinning. It sounds like he also wants to just carry it and have a meidum-sized knife. Does Bos do M2? He may. If he really isn't going to use it for hunting, and just wants to carry it, I can see an M2 knife at 6" with a 3/16" spine do very well for most tasks. But in a hunting knife the edge would chip more often than roll when it hits bone - that makes it a huge pain IMO.

WYK
 
WYK,
Thank you very much for your advice.
I will pass this on to my friend/customer.
What you say makes perfect sense and I do not have the experience to argue. You know how we think, if it cuts other steel well it will surely make a good knife with which to cut meat! I am learning that nothing is necessarily logical in knife making. :o
Yes, the guy wants a knife that will look good to others but he also wants a WORKING knife. He wants a 6" blade because it looks impressive but as I say, he needs it to be a tool as well.
In your opinion, is a 6" blade too long for skinning etc and what is a good steel for a working knife?
I made him one out of ATS 34 a while ago (6" blade) and he was happy with the looks but he complained that it did not have good edge-holding ability even though I had the heat treatment done by a professional company. He did want a stainless blade for obvious reasons, the fact that it would not rust!
I suppose it is the old story of the trade-off!?
More advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 
Thanks for the replies. What has been posted here is what I expected to read. M2 is an excellent steel, but everything I have read states that it is a bear to forge. I didn't think about it being brittle. That would definitely not be a good thing in regards to a big knife.

Ray, I will contact Karl Schroen and see what he has to say.
 
With all this discussion on M-2, I thought I should pose a question about some steel I have that MAY be M-2. It is in the form of two large (1 - 1 1/2 in. dia.) drill bits. They are short bits (roughly 4-5 in.) and I recieved them from a freind who works in a machine shop. The guy he got them from says that he "does not know the steel exactaly, but is SURE it is 'high-speed tool steel'".

Any feedback would be great.
 
Rising Star,
If they are drill bits they will almost certainly be made of high speed tool steel.
There are different grades of HSS though and it seems they all have the brittleness flaw.
 
Ats 34 holds an edge well. But in order to get into the best edge-holding you basically need to get into Carbon steel or high vanadium stainless or carbon. That call is up to you.

As for M2 bring brittle - it is, but only at high hardness levels from what I understand. If you harden it to 58 RC it may be fine in a 6". But, as I stated previously, it will lose out to L-6, 52100, maybe even 50100 hardened to the same levels. It won't hold an edge any better, but it won't be as strong. As I said previously, if it's a hunting knife at 4.5-5" hardened to maybe 62 RC with a 3/16 spine, it may last a good while. But M2 is not by any means stainless.

I would suggest D2 instead of M2 for a large hunter in this guys case. It's nearly stainless and has most the other qualities your bud seems to want. It's ugly, tho ;) It wont even take a 400 grit finish well. Perhaps your answer lies in 154 CPM or S30V? Assuming you wish to spend the money on such metals. I made a 11" Bowie out of 154 CM and wasn't imrpessed by the edge holding at 59 RC. Chris Bowles made a blade for me last year out of 154 CM at the same RC with the same results. I wish I had better news for ya.

But as the original poster asked - I wouldn't dream of using M2 in a fighter or a Bowie of any significant size unless it was a 5/16th blade mostly used for cleaving. That thing would chip or shatter the second I acccidentally dropped it onto the floor of my shop *cough*.

WYK
 
miden said:
Kevin,

You say you have made a lot of blades out of M2.
I agree it must make an excellent cutting tool, we see this with milling cutters and lathe tool bits, reamers etc. They are brittle yes, but they are hardened to about 65 HRC.
You say it is not advisable for larger knives because of the brittle factor.
If however, you were to harden it to only 58 HRC or so would that not go some way to eliminating the brittleness or is that just in the nature of the steel?
Just asking because I am in fact making a 6" blade hunting knife for a buddy, the M2 was his request but if it is not a good idea I think he should be informed. :eek:
Any comments?
Thanks
Click to expand...

WYK has given you almost the exact answer I would give! The heat treaters who do my M2 blades temper them a bit differently than they do for the cutters and saws they usually HT. My blades are drawn back to RC 63-64 which gives a bit more elasticity while retaining excellent cutting ability.

I would hesitate to make a blade over 3 inches from M2 unless the customer was very experienced and knew what he was buyung: a very specialized cutting tool that should be exposed to a minimum of lateral stress.
 
thanks guys, I have learned a lot and you have probably saved my customer and myself a lot of heartache
regards
 
Didn't mean to be discouraging, as long as your customers realizes the limitations of the steel, then M2 makes a Hell of a blade. I wouldn't temper the blade back to 58 however as I think that os outside the usable hardness recomended for M2. Be sure and make a nice thin small user and try it out though, I love M2.

best of luck! :thumbup:
 
Kevin, discouraged I am not. Always better to know the truth.
Nah, I will have to talk my customer buddy out of it. He is a bit of a wild one.
Definitely wants at least a 6" hard blade. He will chop and hack and pry, I know him well and he will not be able to resist!
More discouraging would be if he sent it back all chipped.
We will look into it some more and reserve the M2 for a folder that he said he might want later. I have never made a folder, I have in fact not made a lot of knives yet but we must brush aside our fears and realize our only limitations are in our minds. How is that for philosophy? :D
Thanks again to you and Wyk and anyone else I may have missed.
 
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