Anybody use Yu-Shoku Vtoku2 (mokume clad V2)

M

milkbaby

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Aug 1, 2016
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I just ordered a forge and anvil from Atlas knife and tool so now my mind is racing with different materials that I could now try to turn into a knaf shaped object that was a lot harder when I could only do stock removal.

I got into knives through Japanese kitchen knives and was thinking of picking some prelaminated multilayer clad "suminigashi" billets. Digging around, I found this Yu-Shoku V-Toku2 from Takefu Steels: https://www.bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=99508

This stuff appears to be mokume-clad V-Toku2 as it says in the description it's copper, brass, and stainless steel cladding.

Anybody work this stuff? They say "We recommend not upset forging this material as this can cause delamination." At the temps needed to heat treat it, how does the copper and brass not just melt and leak out if you cut the dang thing to profile it? Or maybe it's not multilayer laminate, the mokume was already worked to make patterns in it and then wrapped as cladding around the core?
 
I dug around a little more and it appears Japanese bladesmiths are obviously forging the stuff:
97042_1_x.jpg
 
Wow that’s pricey. Never worked with this particular stuff and don’t think I will at that price....
Perhaps start with less costly three layer?
 
That stuff seems pretty cool but something you would want to work strictly stock removal, Id get the straight vtoku 2 core with stainless cladding, the fun with the forge will be upsetting the pattern. You can also upset the pattern with cold forging.
 
I have enough trouble with the idea of using blade materials that contain metals that don't harden, so as you might imagine, I would be a bit concerned about a blade material that contain that amount of soft, non-ferrous metals. This stuff kind of sounds like an answer to a question that nobody should be asking.
 
I haven't used their stuff, but it forges and HT just fine. The core will get crazy hard, and you can make a very attractive knife with a 63-64 Rockwell edge. The mokume gets even better looking with age.

Pricy? ... yes ... but it will make a $1000+ kitchen knife for the aficionado of fine cutlery.
 
Ok for some reason I was thinking copper melting point was below that of austenitization temp but I was wrong. Thinking about it now, you only want to heat high enough to forge the cladding (below melting points of the cladding materials) and not necessarily forge out the billet. Can anybody tell me where I'm wrong in my thinking on this?
 
Copper melts at almost 2000F. The copper/brass/stainless mokume can take the forging temps ... as indicated inthe spec sheet. HT temps are not a concern at all.

Because this is a very red-short billet, forging would be problematic. There is only a 180 degree forging window. Above 2012 and you have crumbling, below 1832 and you have cracking. That drop can happen in just a couple hammer blows. I would not suggest anyone but a real pro forge it.
 
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The data sheet says not to upset forge it. It forges to taper and draw out the bevels, and to pattern the surface, just fine. DON'T overheat it or you will spit out molten metal from the mokume, though.
One caution is to forge the edge area very evenly. If you get the core pushed around and wobbly, it will not come out right when you grind it. Clean the edge off on the grinder every few heats and dip in the FC. This will show you where the edge is wandering and allow correction before it is too late.
On my next billet of this material. I may only work the upper bevels, leaving the lower 1/3 untouched. This will give a random pattern on the upper bevel above the shinogi and a straight pattern like Pablo has on the edge bevel.

I took a 19.5" piece and made two Japanese kitchen blades.
I worked the surfaces with a round faced hammer, then drew out the bevel and distal taper with a flat face. This created a random pattern to the mokume cladding. The core is pretty thin to start with, and after forging the edge is just the right thickness to leave a nice dark 1/4" wide hard steel line. The rest of the surface is mokume. I am going to fit mokume-gane bolsters and a handles of python micarta.
I have done the rough grinding on the bunkabocho (bunka-bano-bocho), which is a kitchen utility knife similar to a santoku. The other is a nikiri.

The bunkabocho started out as a gyuto, but the tip was overheated and delaminated about an inch in the quench. I ground it off and re-shaped the blade as a bunkabocho … which looks even better.

I'll post a photo of the progress tonight after I clean it up a few grits finer.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I worked the surfaces with a round faced hammer, then drew out the bevel and distal taper with a flat face. This created a random pattern to the mokume cladding. The core is pretty thin to start with, and after forging the edge is just the right thickness to leave a nice dark 1/4" wide hard steel line. The rest of the surface is mokume. I am going to fit mokume-gane bolsters and a handles of python micarta.
I have done the rough grinding on the bunkabocho (bunka-bano-bocho), which is a kitchen utility knife similar to a santoku. The other is a nikiri.

The bunkabocho started out as a gyuto, but the tip was overheated and delaminated about an inch in the quench. I ground it off and re-shaped the blade as a bunkabocho … which looks even better.

I'll post a photo of the progress tonight after I clean it up a few grits finer.
Click to expand...
It would be nice to see pictures of that bunkabocho ..............
 
It is sitting in the bins in the new shop waiting to be handled. I'll see if I can get it bout one day this week forn photos. I learned a lot in forging this stuff. Number one was not to forge it too hard or too hot ... or the copper/brass will squirt out as molten liquid.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It is sitting in the bins in the new shop waiting to be handled. I'll see if I can get it bout one day this week forn photos. I learned a lot in forging this stuff. Number one was not to forge it too hard or too hot ... or the copper/brass will squirt out as molten liquid.
Click to expand...
I will use my tube HT furnace for precise temperature .I must try this , look so cool .Not forging , just welding them together ....so which temperature you think is best for that ?
 
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