Anyone Been to Tom Brown Class?

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I PWN |\|00bs
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Jul 13, 2000
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I read a lot of his books a few years ago, and am thinking of taking one of his classes for a vacation this summer. Has anyone been to one? I did a search for his name in the forums, and he doesn't come up much. Does that mean that most of you have a low opinion of him?

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Doubt is an uncomfortable condition,
but certainty is a ridiculous one.
 
Reading his books is what originally got me interested in survival. I just recently met someone who attended Tracker School. He learned a great deal, but it's very "primative" and deals a lot in the spiritual side of living in the woods. Some people will like this while others may be a little put off. Just something to think about.
 
If you're refering to the Standard class, it's not very primitive at all, unless you want to stay in a Holliday Inn. Students live in tents and are fed by the camp cooks.
Most of your time is spent sitting in a barn listening to lectures. The primary hands-on work is with the bow drill. The instruction on this is very good and most people make a fire before they leave. You get a lot of information thrown at you, and it's all good, but no survival experience. I've heard the follow-up courses are more experential. If you're looking for "in the woods" stuff," I'd recommend Greg Davenport's course. Darryl Patton and Jeff Randall are also doing some interesting stuff.
 
I've been to about six of his classes. I enjoyed them all. He is very good and does push you. He is also very straight forward, comes off to many as arrogant. If you are very rigid and judgemental, and deep down believe that you are good at these skills you will find that he does not give a damn about what you think, and this rubs many people the wrong way.
I, myself, have had nothing but good encounters with him. But I have seen other people frozen up in tremendous anger, barely able to move at times, fighting some inner battle and transfering a lot of that anger to Tom Brown. Some people do just the opposite, think he is a god, or an angel, and transfer all of that to him as well. He doesn't seem to cut any slack for their beliefs either.

One fellow student once told me -- he was an older man -- 'Tom never wanted to be a god, he just wanted to be a man'

In the community I lived in for ten years there were a lot of Tom Brown students. I used to say that you could tell a Tom Brown student from a mile away because they were all *******s, myself very much included, most people did come back somewhat cocky from a class. But it is as he says, you need to practice.
Most of the people I hired were graduates of Tom Brown, I didn't plan it that way, it just happened. One was an exceptional tracker, he got his start at Tom's, but it was his dirt time and his desire which made him good. He would say Tom has a lot to teach but would also seek other trackers and actually put his skills to use.
Another was fantastic at fire making, extremely strong, and very curious and intrigued by the world around him. He would continualy test himself. Soak his tinder bundle in water before starting a fire, practice making fire in the rain, or see how long he could leave a coal smoking in the tinder and still be able to blow it into a flame. He would also practice using a wide variety of woods and would allow his passions to lead him off into the woods and depend on his skills to see him through.

I am only good at stalking, but I admire what the others are able to do, it is always wonderful to be around people who are walking a path with heart. Tom only helped give them the tools, show them the possibilities. They took it from there.

 
What are the two most important things about stalking Timber? What is the best book/video/practice regarding stalking?

Thank you,
bug
 
Strength is key in stalking. The need to freeze and hold your position for minutes on end at times. and being relaxed while doing it.
I was made by a dog on what was supposed to be a quick scouting trip. Even though it was an arm's reach away it only smelled me but neither saw me nor heard me, as it was untrained that wasn't enough for it to be sure I was there. My partner, behind me, also kept his cool. Either one of us could have given the dog the clue it was looking for, we didn't.

Tom Brown's books may have good diagram's of various stalks.
The instance I mentioned above involved a belly crawl and a snake crawl, for me. My partner was still a ways back in a very low crouch, within low cover.

There are a couple of body crawls we use. One involves just raising your body, as if you are doing a slow push-up, and then using your toes to push you forward. Lowering yourself, then moving your arms ahead, into position for another pick.
The one I used to get into position in the dog example was something of a snake crawl, for when you are very close or in a place where discovery is a danger.

In the snake crawl (my term) your arms are stretched ahead of you and the motion begins at your feet, your butt raises, knees lower, weight si born on knees and forearms, chest raises as butt descends, the motion is duplicated, then arms are worked forward again. It is a very low crawl, paying great attention to debris and obstacles. It can be very silent, and very very time consuming. You move forward in such small bites.

The standing stalk can develop a lot of leg strength depending on how much, or little, you are crouched over. Relaxation is very important there too, as you may need to hold a position for a long time.
Motion detector lights are wonderful stalking tools.

Stalking in your living room is not bad either. It gives you scale vs. time. I try and take twenty minutes or more to cross a room (standing up, more on my belly). Outside, with the vast horizons, one may lose the sense of just how slow slow really is. Stalking up on animals teaches a bit of what we can get away with, where and when you can be faster and not worry about the noise, limiting motion is also very important.
Stalking parties and dogs and such puts the adreniline in and teaches that a stalk is not always a lark, it can have consequences for you, like being bitten, or worse. Dealing with the rush is very important at times.

Stalking animals requires a lot of knowledge of the one you are pursuing -- tracking is a great teacher of behavior -- as you may do your stalk perfectly but the deer, squirel, etc., will have moved on by the time you get near where you first saw it.

Does that help?
 
Yes Timber, it helps alot. You say, "Dealing with the rush is very important at times." Do you mean when you are discovered and a person or animal will rush towards you? If not what do you refer to. If that is what you mean, then how do you deal with the rush?

Once I was jogging in the woods when I came upon a Doberman taking a dump. I had to decide whether to make noise and alert him to my presence or not. I didn't. He wasn't aware of me until I was ten feet from him.
He instantly charged me going for my throat.
I instantly, and instinctively, responded by falling backwards on my butt. I was on my butt with his teeth about three feet from my throat when he gracefully changed direction and loped off. I always like to think that he realized I was no threat.

"...(S)talking parties...," does that refer to stalking a beer party like Tob Brown mentioned in one of his books?

Thanks,
bug
 
I mean the adreniline rush. Being calm under perceived pressure.

When you are stalking a deer, or a chipmunk, and there is no great need, when it is just an excercise or a whim, and you grow tired, or feel off-balance, it's easy to just end the stalk, or to rest and leave the mindset, and then either take up the stalk again or turn your attention elsewhere.

When you sure you are in danger everything is different. Unexpected situations always arise, which is why I mentioned the dog encounter in my previous post. My partner and I pushed beyond what we intended. We were going to come back later, after we had washed, changed and smoked ourselves -- to help cover our scent and to blend our selves into the landscape -- we yielded to the temptation of getting closer and closer to the party, a shooting, drinking party, but with kids and wives, it looked so easy, not at all what we expected and that is where we ran into trouble.

Danger comes in a lot of varieties, being exposed, arrested, bitten, shot, take your pick. But I have found that when you believe yourself to be in jeopardy, and ending the stalk, or being discovered, is seen as a tremendous risk, there is a great rush of adreniline and or anxiety. It makes it dificult to balance and to flow and to remain flexible enough to respond as conditions change.

Often times the danger is greatly exagerated in the mind and it is our response to the inner anxiety which is actually our greatest threat. Learning to remain calm, to seperate oneself from those feelings, to remain connected and flexible is, I think, key.
That's why stalking in your living room (I've been doing that this morning) is a great excercise but going out and stalking, and there are many ways to face dangers witho9ut participating in illegal activities, is neccesary.

Tom Brown does this very well in some of his classes, introducing dangers, or rather, creating dangerous situations in the minds of his students, using their own fears and imaginations. Often times it isn't until we face our fears that we see what they truly represent. I'm not saying that fear is unfounded, only, in my case, often unexplored and so not truly known.


I recognize that a good stalker also needs to be a good tracker, and I am not.
 
You've been a help, Timber. Thank you. Could you go into living room stalking a bit more? How do you smoke yourself? Could you please email me your email address so I can continue to ask questions if I lose you on the Forums? Today I began to search for a portable motion detector. I had been trying to stalk past the motion light in my driveway. Unsuccessfully.

bug
 
Living room stalking, or stalking in a house, is just a practice in going very very slow. I have a very, very squeaky floor in one room. No matter what I do I can't walk across it without making noise but the squeaks help to point out where and when, in my movements, my leg is most wobbly and where I am rushing things.

It really does take about twenty minutes to cross my living room. I used a stop watch, after I wrote one of these posts, to time myself and came in at 19:27. That was a medium slow walk.

Another nice practice I like is to have a light source behind me and see if I can notice movement in my shawdow. I like that better than watching myself in a mirror, those are slow, slow, very slow motions. This is just practice. Most of the time it is not applicable, but it builds strength and teaches one to move at these extremely slow rates. In my experience there is nothing worse than being on a stalk and finding yourself lacking the strength and the balance right when you need it the most. ie; making it to within four feet of a friend without being noticed and blowing it right at the end. That is just losing out on the fun of being the one to surprise, it is worse if you lose your supper or become someone's supper.

Everything I talk about is taught by Tom Brown. He covers much more than this but there is a large network of people who get togther to practice this and more.
If you are near western Mass. there are quite a few groups in the area.

http://www.hawkcircle.com/
This is a link to a friend's camp. They do teach adults as well as children but they also act as a networking hub, though that isn't his primary focus.

Smoking is fairly simple, you stand in the smoke of a fire. It is best if you are clean first, such as having bathed and gone through a sauna or a sweat lodge. Rubbing yourself with local, fragrant plants also adds to the camoflage (prior to smoking).

When we camoflage we mud ourselves up before smoking.
I think camoflage is as fun as stalking, and as involved. It is a rush to lie part way in a well used trail and have people, and animals step over you or near you, with no hint they have seen you.

I have only done this with groups that knew I would be there, so there was little danger of actually being hurt by a runner or a bicyclist, but I have heard of, and read reports of, others who have been run over.

There are a lot of people who are very much more involved with this life style than I am. Rick's school attracts many of them.
Try braintan.com as well. Braintanners often are either involved with this or connected to people who live this way most of the time.
Good luck
 
One more thing about motion detectors; Stand in front of your light (use many diferent ranges if you like) let it shut off, then just raise your hand, see at what speed you need to go for it not to react to your presence. That shows you how slow you need to move.

Personaly I like the old security system motion detectors best, the ones that react to motion even when the alarm system is not armed. A red light comes on, but goes off very quickly, it takes much less time than waiting for a light to reset and you don't have people wondering why you are standing still for hours at a time in your drive way.

Motion detectors are just fun, they become a game. You don't need to simply practice walking,they are great for raising a bow, scratching your nose, readying yourself to throw a stick at your, hopefuly, soon to be supper, imagination is your oly limitation here.

Where you move is also very important when stalking. It is one thing if nothing sees you move, but if you walk upright across a bare hill in full daylight, things may still wonder what the hell you are doing there. I know that is common sense but I still catch myself wondering why the heck I choose to cross a spot where I did rather than use a bit more cover. Sometimes lack of cover, going where no-one expects you to be, is good, and does give you an edge.

As I said, I am not the best, but it is a lot of fun.
 
Thank you again Timber. I do live in Western Mass and will be checking out your leads: braintan.com, getting a quick reset motion detector, trying living room stalks etc.

bug
 
I've never been to his classes but have read many of his books, and I got a lot out of them. I read several of his books twice, but do not believe everything written in them. I looked into his classes and found them to be rediculously over priced (in my opinion). I am also turned off by his Mother Earth Worship mumbo jumbo, since I worship the Creator, not the creation. I have to admit that Stalking Wolf (aka Grandfather), seems like a very interesting character, but sometimes I wonder whether or not he ever even existed. Perhaps he was made up by Tom, because some of the stories about his skills seem far fetched. Maybe I'm wrong, and if so - my apologies to Tom. In any case, if Grandfather was real, I think he'd be ashamed of how much Tom charges for his classes. In fact, if he had wanted to charge Tom what Tom charges others, Tom wouldn't of been able to learn anything from him.
 
Volvi,
Odd, I had the same thought about what Stalking Wolf would think about his classes. I think it kind of goes against what he believed. But, a man has to make a living.

When I decided to take this kind of vacation, I automatically thought of Tom. I think I'll do some more checking before I commit.




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Doubt is an uncomfortable condition,
but certainty is a ridiculous one.
 
Random,

For an alternative view point, check out Ron Hoods Forum and do a search. There is some good pro and con stuff. Mostly con.

Jim McCullough

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Next time you feel your life is sooo tough, read this- Some American Heroes
 
Ron is an excellent teacher and always has an interesting and informative way to relay information. The forums are kind of a live supplement to his videos however. Its good to be able to watch one of his videos and go to others that may be able to help clarify or make stuff easier on you. If Toms classes are not your thing there are plenty of other ways to go about it. NW
 
Thanks guys, I've been reading through their ez board.

------------------
Doubt is an uncomfortable condition,
but certainty is a ridiculous one.
 
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