Anyone have experience with 9254?

[JG Custom Metal Works]

I came into a decent amount of Japanese 9254. The steel is the straight-ish end pieces from large coil springs. Round stock, from .400” to .700” diameter and up to one foot in length. I was told it’s annealed. I checked the hardness and it tested to 25hrc, which seems to confirm that claim.

I was told to treat it a lot like 5160. Heat to 1525f and quench in peanut oil. Temper at 300f twice, each for one hour, and that will it be around 58hrc(60-62hrc out or quench). The guy who gave me this info is a very knowledgeable and experienced knife maker and I have no reason to doubt him. That being said, it never’s bad to have a second opinion on things before putting a bunch of energy into something.

I was hoping that this could be a good steel to forge. It hasn’t been used or “under load” like a bunch of the leaf springs I have. It’s also a known steel and I think I can probably even get the certs for it. So to be specific on what I’m trying to find out:

-What’s a good heat treat recipe?

-What quench oil should I use, and at what temperature? I have Parks 50 and McMaster-Carr 11 second quench oil. Would either of those work? I’d like to use a engineered oil, made especially for quenching if possible.

-What is the working temp for forging?

-What are the ideal uses for this steel knife-wise? Big choppers and the like, as with 5160?



As always, I’d greatly appreciate any help.

 

[mete]

Fairly common automotive coil spring steel in Asia and Europe.There are some variations like 9260. Another development with 'micro-alloying ' is the addition of small amounts of of Vanadium which makes a higher strength and lighter spring important in automobile design. The only problem to be aware of is the possible loss of Silicon. You treat it like 5160 in both HT and usage. I never handled it directly so I don't have any details. A good basic steel . good properties with simple HT .

 

[jdm61]

Admiral sold 9260 as a "5160 substitute" in some sizes for a long time. IIRC, so did Uncle Al in the big 3/8 thick bars.

Fairly common automotive coil spring steel in Asia and Europe.There are some variations like 9260. Another development with 'micro-alloying ' is the addition of small amounts of of Vanadium which makes a higher strength and lighter spring important in automobile design. The only problem to be aware of is the possible loss of Silicon. You treat it like 5160 in both HT and usage. I never handled it directly so I don't have any details. A good basic steel . good properties with simple HT .

 

[MBB]

According to the "Knife Steel Chart" app, 9254 is basically 5160 plus 1.2 - 1.4% Si for increased toughness/shock resistance. 9260 has even more Si (1.8 - 2.2%), again for shock resistance, and is sometimes used in lawnmower blades. Both steels are supposed to be good for large blades and swords.

According to the "Heat Treating" app, hardenability is fairly high. Forging is from 1700 - 2200 F. Hardening suggests 1600 F with an oil quench (seems high to me).

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

It works just like 9260. 1550-1600°F austenitization and oil quench ( 130°F canola will do fine). Temper twice at 350-400°F. (300°F is the minimum temper, but for things as thin as a knife a bit higher is safer.) This is a very tough steel, but not a high hardness one. Shoot for a blade around Rc 57-58.

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

It works just like 9260. 1550-1600°F austenitization and oil quench ( 130°F canola will do fine). Temper twice at 350-400°F. (300°F is the minimum temper, but for things as thin as a knife a bit higher is safer.) This is a very tough steel, but not a high hardness one. Shoot for a blade around Rc 57-58.

Believe it or not, I actually don’t have canola at the moment. Would Parks 50 be too fast? What about McMaster-Carr 11 second quench oil?

Thanks for the info everyone.

 

[Salem Straub]

McMaster 11 second would be better than P50.
I'm a bit jealous, 9260 is hard to find now and I was looking for a while. When I called Admiral they had stopped subbing it for 5160 in a 1/4" size. It should be killer for swords, Cheness in particular talks it up for being very tough from the silicon. Might be hype but I think there's something there.
Can you get more? I'd be interested...

 

[jdm61]

If you have a 6 foot long mailbox, I still have a couple of 3/8 thick bars from Uncle Al that I think are 9260. The admiral stuff was the 1 x 1/4 round edge bar IIRC. Hell, I may have a couple of those leftover.

McMaster 11 second would be better than P50.
I'm a bit jealous, 9260 is hard to find now and I was looking for a while. When I called Admiral they had stopped subbing it for 5160 in a 1/4" size. It should be killer for swords, Cheness in particular talks it up for being very tough from the silicon. Might be hype but I think there's something there.
Can you get more? I'd be interested...

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

Thanks a ton for the info guys, I really appreciate it. I’m gonna forge a blade or two today and see how they work.

Salem, thanks for the info. Do you think the McMaster-Carr 11 would be better than canola oil? Sorry to be so persistent on the quench oil thing, I just kind of get OCD on things like this.

I sent you an email, regarding getting more. I didn’t wanna get into a gray area on here. The email will be coming from:

jgordon83@hotmail.com

Just so you know in case it goes to your junk folder. Whenever I tried to copy your email address from your webpage it added “mailto” in front of the email address and wouldn’t send. I think I finally got it figured out and got the email sent though. Shoot me an email if it didn’t.

Thanks again for the info everyone. I’m gonna go forge some of this stuff in just a few.

 

[Salem Straub]

I think 11 second would be better. I know several people including Darrin Sanders who have quenched a lot of 5160 in McMaster 11 second with good results and no pings. Canola is a decent initial quench speed and will easily get you past the pearlite nose with 5160, yet as you get down towards Ms and during martensite formation, it is more likely to cause undue stress since it is not an engineered oil and thus the cooling curve doesn't put the brakes on at this point.
I speak of 5160, as I've not heat treated any 92 series myself, and most of what I've seen refers to treating it like 5160. I'd start there and then try to learn what optimization might be appropriate specifically to 9254.
I got the email too! Thanks!

 

[jdm61]

4 of the old 6 foot bars of Admiral 1 x 1/4 9260 were hiding in my garage. Rapier time?