Anyone have experience with this hawk from Track of the Wolf?

the possum · Sep 8, 2006

Came across this the other day while searching for something else. It doesn't sound too promising, but thought I'd check & see if anyone here has had good results with one.

It's a cast steel head to make your own pipe hawk.

Found here.

Says it's an "Investment cast head in a mild steel, which can be hardened after finishing." Mild steel that can be hardened, eh? Am I correct in suspecting this is only suitable for decoration?

Cliff Stamp · Sep 8, 2006

You could case harden it. Mild steel is pretty weak compared to cutlery steel, you need a fairly heavy cross section to keep it from deforming.

-Cliff

Nuttman · Sep 21, 2006

If you go to the R E Davis Company websight you can see this head and a few others they sell. They are the ones who mfg. these. On the websight click on the finished products tab and you can see some of the beautiful tomahawks made with their heads. They also sell the maple handles and some other items to dress up a hawk. Most of the fellows who use these heads use them for wall hangers or just to carry, but not for hard use. If you check The Muzzleloading Forum websight, you can click on Members resources, next page click on Muzzleloading links, next page click on edged weapons. There are many fine bladesmiths listed who make pipe hawks, spike hawks, spontoons, and belt axes. Many made for rugged use. You may have to register as a member to have access.

win70 · Sep 21, 2006

Years ago I worked in a factory that made steel stamps, you know the kind of stamp used to stamp a letter or number onto other steel items with....... Well all of the bar stock was mild steel 3/8" square, the letter or number was pressed onto the end using a die. Well anyways after the letter or number was pressed onto the end of the mild steel bar stock, the edges would be ground off arround the digit and the tool would be cleaned up...... THEN HEAT TREATED & THESE STAMPS TURNED OUT PLENTY HARD.

the possum · Sep 22, 2006

Thanks for that website, Nuttman. R E Davis 'hawksThey really don't give any info about the steel there, but I called & left a message with the owner. It may be a while 'till I hear back from him, as the message on the machine said he's out sick.

The only clue I have is the description they have for the steel bit you can buy to install in their brass heads. They say the bit is 4140, which is a good steel for hammer heads. Not sure it will hold a good woodworking edge, but it aught to handle the impacts. Guess I need to find out whether the rest of their heads are also made of 4140.

Return of the J.D. · Sep 22, 2006

the possum said:
Thanks for that website, Nuttman. R E Davis 'hawksThey really don't give any info about the steel there, but I called & left a message with the owner. It may be a while 'till I hear back from him, as the message on the machine said he's out sick.

Being curious, I e-mailed yesterday. This morning, I received a response saying,
"All of the heads are cast in either 8620 or 4140 steel." So, there you go: cast, but not forged. How well does cast steel stand up to real use in a 'hawk head?

Incidentally, this may be a good thread in which to repeat a question I've raised in another thread: what is the cheapest pipe hawk anyone knows about that can genuinely be used for medium-duty hatchet-like purposes?

the possum · Sep 22, 2006

"All of the heads are cast in either 8620 or 4140 steel."

Well. Guess then I'd have to ask about a specific one to make sure what it is. For the price, I might be able to tolerate 4140. But I have absolutely no interest in a head from 8620. The 4140 only has about .4% carbon, but can still be hardened reasonably well. 8620 however only has about .2% carbon and is most commonly used for case hardening applications.

I'm beginning to think if I really want a pipe hawk on the cheap, the best solution would be to buy a cheap regular tomahawk and solder on a pipe bowl to the back of the head.

Nuttman · Sep 25, 2006

Possum,
I don't know what price range your talking about, but here are a couple of websights for some nice hawks to look at, these guy's do some beautiful work. www.longknivesandleather.com and www.beaverbills.com.
I have seen some beautiful hawks done by one of the fellows at wild rose trading company. www.wrtcleather.com. He had a plain head that he silver soldered a pipe bowl to, he decorated it then aged it and it came out just beautiful. I will try to send the pictures I have of it. I like hawks and hatchets from the French and Indian war period through the Plains Indian period.

the possum · Sep 25, 2006

Thanks for the links, Nuttman. (except I can't get beaverbill's site to come up...)

I gotta agree those are some fine looking 'hawks on those pages. Unfortunately, I'm sure they're gonna be well out of my price range. I'm sure they are worth the asking prices, but funds limit me to stuff in the $20-$50 range. (unless the Wild Rose/soldered pipe bowl hawk is pretty cheap?)

I did get a reply back from Tim at R E Davis though about the steel used in these heads. The one I'm interested in only comes in 8620, but some of my second choices are available in 4140. However, he mentioned being able to get 'em in 6150 if we order at least 6 at one time. Think I'll start a new thread on that.