Anyone know a good knife crime statistic site?

corwise · May 12, 2009

Reading though the forums I see a lot of folks throwing out 'facts' and 'statistics,' and I'm always doubtful of them actually being correct. The most common one seems to be that '90% of knife crimes are committed with a Kitchen knife.' My sister works in an ER in Miami and disagrees with this one. Anyway, I'm curious if anyone knows someplace that actually would have those statistics, or any statistics on knife crimes. Did some searching online but no luck. I'm guessing these are probably tracked locally and not nationally if they're tracked at all, but just curious. Thanks.

tom19176 · May 12, 2009

the details in NYC are written on a "61" (police incident report) but the data is then grouped into catagories for stastical reasons and all stabbings are grouped together. There have been some attempts for seperate box cutters from knives and things like that, but when I was last involved in seeing these reports on a regular basis there was not much more than that. From my experience, kitchen knives rule as the main weapon, because most stabbings are the result of a domestic dispute or a street robbery where in the case of the domestic the knife was handy, and in the case of the street robbery, the suspect was a drug user of teen and the kitchen knife was easily and cheaply obtained. What were you told? Does she see high end knives used and if so how does she know what was used? I rarely had an evidence bag go into the ER with a victim, and the only question asked by EMS about a punture wound was length or width of the blade to determine the maxium wound cavity if the blade was fully thrust in the victim.

glistam · May 12, 2009

A good resource is the US DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics. It's more or less straight from the source, though it has limitations in how much detail you can get. For example, it really only has reliable weapon-choice data on homicide, not assaults where the victim lived. Further, it only has Gun, Knife and "Other" as distinctions between weapon used, and no further detail.

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Homicide/State/StateHomicide.cfm

The FBI's Uniform Crime Reports are also useful for this:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Slight Tangent:
I felt a similar sentiment recently about seeking reliable and unbiased statistics. I grew tired of politically motivated stats so I decided to compute my own based on this data to compare state knife murders per capita with state's knife laws. So far, there is not much statistical significant difference between states, though Indiana, North Dakota and Vermont are at the very low end (less than 0.4 murders per 100,000 people).

EDIT: It's possible the "Kitchen Knife" argument is being misquoted. If I remember correctly, it that most knife homicides are with kitchen knives (victim is dead, often before EMS ever sees them). The comparatively long blade and wide wound channel seems (to me) that it would more likely be fatal than any pocket-carry knife (manual or automatic). Whereas rapes, robberies and assaults are with smaller concealable and/or more intimidating-looking knives.

TOM1960 · May 13, 2009

tom19176 said:
the details in NYC are written on a "61" (police incident report) but the data is then grouped into catagories for stastical reasons and all stabbings are grouped together. There have been some attempts for seperate box cutters from knives and things like that, but when I was last involved in seeing these reports on a regular basis there was not much more than that. From my experience, kitchen knives rule as the main weapon, because most stabbings are the result of a domestic dispute or a street robbery where in the case of the domestic the knife was handy, and in the case of the street robbery, the suspect was a drug user of teen and the kitchen knife was easily and cheaply obtained. What were you told? Does she see high end knives used and if so how does she know what was used? I rarely had an evidence bag go into the ER with a victim, and the only question asked by EMS about a punture wound was length or width of the blade to determine the maxium wound cavity if the blade was fully thrust in the victim.

According to David E. Steel, author of "Secrets of Modern Knife Fighting", the typical street knife is a folder with a blade length of 4" or less, due to concealment problems. Most of the people that I know who carry knives (including yours truly) agree with this assessment, because these are the types that we carry. I have also seen photos of tables at city police stations (Boston, Lowell, and Worcester, MA) filled with knives confiscated from arrested suspects. Almost without exception, they were folders. These photos were used to push for local knife bans here in this state. From a practical standpoint, the "Crocodile Dundee" and "Rambo" type knives are just to darned big to effectively carry concealed in everyday life! Besides, most of the young punks who arm themselves with knives are low-budget operators and they go for the cheap ones (low-grade steel, beaten out on a rock somewhere in Pakistan or India!) imported into the United States and sold for less than $10. These are the "Saturday Night Specials" of knives, cheap and disposable. A thrust to the neck or the chest with one of these cheapies, however, can still easily inflict a serious or fatal wound.

glistam · May 13, 2009

TOM1960 said:
According to David E. Steel, author of "Secrets of Modern Knife Fighting", the typical street knife is a folder with a blade length of 4" or less, due to concealment problems. Most of the people that I know who carry knives (including yours truly) agree with this assessment, because these are the types that we carry. I have also seen photos of tables at city police stations (Boston, Lowell, and Worcester, MA) filled with knives confiscated from arrested suspects. Almost without exception, they were folders. These photos were used to push for local knife bans here in this state. From a practical standpoint, the "Crocodile Dundee" and "Rambo" type knives are just to darned big to effectively carry concealed in everyday life! Besides, most of the young punks who arm themselves with knives are low-budget operators and they go for the cheap ones (low-grade steel, beaten out on a rock somewhere in Pakistan or India!) imported into the United States and sold for less than $10. These are the "Saturday Night Specials" of knives, cheap and disposable. A thrust to the neck or the chest with one of these cheapies, however, can still easily inflict a serious or fatal wound.

I agree, and working with what you say, I think the type of crime is important to distinguish between as the type of knife:

Illegal Carry
Assault
Robbery
Rape
Murder
-1st
-2nd

Each crime probably has a more prevalent weapon statistically speaking, though for now there's not "hard' numbers I know of.

tom19176 · May 13, 2009

CPW ( Criminal possession of a weapon) medium folders rule the pack. Deaths and serious injuries are still kitchen knives. I actually asked the opinion of Lt. and three detectives at work tonight. All agree with this statement,

corwise · May 14, 2009

Thanks for the inputs.

zignal_zero · May 14, 2009

if you went globally, i'd put money on machettes coming in first :-D

mp510 · May 14, 2009

tom19176 said:
CPW ( Criminal possession of a weapon) medium folders rule the pack. Deaths and serious injuries are still kitchen knives. I actually asked the opinion of Lt. and three detectives at work tonight. All agree with this statement,

I think that its important to highlight that (probably) the only reason why medium sized folders lead CPW arrests in NYC is because of the strict enforcement of the City's concealment requirement and the local application of the statewide gravity knife definition. Many of those folks carry them for the same reason any of us carry a knife- not with intent to do harm to others. Unfortunately, they get pinched because they are not familiar with the law.

A while back a poster here, Mercop I believe, posted a picture showing a collection of knives seized by his department.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=558396&highlight=confiscated&page=4

Columbia River (Clothes) Shoshonee
88 Cent Stanley Screwdriver
metal knuckles
Pakistani double edge dagger
Porterhouse-type steak knife
serrated steak/kitchen knife
Retractable box cutter
carton cutter
folding box cutter
Chinese tactical folder
Chinese paring knife

I've personally been the victim of knife assaults twice. The first time, I was slashed with a retractable blade utility knife in a main corridor during my first week in high school. I suffered only superficial injuries, but it was clear how nicely a razor blade could slice skin (I still have a scar from that). however A number of years later, a punk tried to rob me with a Leatherman tool after I walked out of a convenience store (he thrust at my throat and missed...).

mp510 · May 14, 2009

zignal_zero said:
if you went globally, i'd put money on machettes coming in first :-D

I think Rwanda was a good show of how deadly people with Machetes can be. They are cheap and are common tools just about everywhere in the developing world. I think commonness is key to frequency of knives being used as weapons.

A couple of years ago, there was an upsurge in their use here as well. There was a rash of machete assaults in Mass which actually prompted the Mass legislature to consider banning and/or requiring permits to own a machete. I believe the bills failed.

mp510 · May 14, 2009

I recall reading that in Australia, screwdrivers are fast becoming leading stabbing implements.

glistam · May 14, 2009

mp510 said:
I think that its important to highlight that (probably) the only reason why medium sized folders lead CPW arrests in NYC is because of the strict enforcement of the City's concealment requirement and the local application of the statewide gravity knife definition. Many of those folks carry them for the same reason any of us carry a knife- not with intent to do harm to others. Unfortunately, they get pinched because they are not familiar with the law.

I was going to say the same thing when I realized tom was from NY.

The "CPW" or "Illegal Carry" category of crime is entirely relative to a given jurisdiction, so it is probably the poorest measurement to consider.

In my part of the US, medium or even large folders aren't part of any CDW confiscations and arrests (save the occasional McGuigan), on account of them not being illegal in the first place.