Anyone know what type of steel is used in issue pilot survival knives?

S

Steve6

Joined
Sep 29, 1999
Messages
128
Can anyone tell me what type of steel is used for the blades on Gov't issue pilot survival knives?

Thanks.
 
Steve6,
CAMILLUS uses 1095 carbon steel in its 5" Military Pilot's Survival knife. This steel 'exceeds' mil-spec[better quality]. I'm not sure what ONTARIO uses[other major supplier to the military], but I wouldn't be surprised if wasn't 1095 also. This knife represents a great value, in a survival knife, when you consider its features and its low price.

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Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery


 
I found the book, "Return with Honor" ©1995 by Captain Scott O'Grady to be of interest. He is the pilot who was shot down over Bosnia on June 2, 1995, and was later successfully rescued. The book is about that event.

On page 99 (Chapter 5), he had this to say while reaching for his Swiss Army Knife: "(I also had a standard-issue, U.S.-made knife, but I knew from experience that it was a piece of junk--it couldn't hold an edge.)"

I do not know what kind of knife it was or should have been, but I thought it relevant to this thread.
 
I always giggle when someone states "That knife won't hold an edge!" I have an issue Pilot's survival knife (made by Camillus) and it does hold an edge. I think Scott O'Grady is probably not qualified to know if a knife will hold an edge or not. In fact, if you don't know how to sharpen a knife properly, you don't know whether a knife will hold an edge or not! Most knives are blamed for edge holding deficiencies by people that cannot put an edge back on a knife! Here's the scenario. The knife has an edge when they bought it. They use it till it is considerably less sharp. They get out the stones and make a few passes--it isn't as sharp as when they obtained it (improper sharpening angle). They exclaim "this knife won't hold an edge," when they really mean, "I can't put an edge on this knife because I'm too abrasively challenged!" I like Swiss Army Knives also, but I can tell you they don't hold an edge any better than a Camillus Pilot's Survival Knife! O'Grady may be famous for getting shot down, but he don't know knives!

Bruce Woodbury
 
Gee Bruce, I always thought when people called me abrasive that they meant I was hard to get along with. I guess my prowess with carborundum just shines through somehow. It kind of chokes me up.
 
Good point! You made some excellent statements that couldn't be truer about sharpening and edge holding
L
 
O'Grady makes a few other statements that might be hard to believe, but still an interesting survival story. I'd respond to the rest, but I'm laughing to hard when I think about the other commentary. Abras....gasp, just can't type....
 
The current Swedish aircrew knife is the Fällkniven F1, currently in VG-10 but the earliest issued version was ATS-34.

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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/

"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999

 
Thanks for all the replies. I've been issued several pilot survival knives over the years. None of them came with a good edge which is probably why they have the reputation they do (piece of crap, won't hold an edge). In my experience, you can sharpen them up but they won't take a lot of misuse / abuse without breaking or bending (or both). Usually just the tip breaks off and they may bend at the handle junction but will still be useable.
It was my search for a more durable knife that first got me interested in knives.

By the way, one of the issued knives has been out in my back yard next to the grill for almost four years. The handle has lost a few washers and the blade is rusted (but not deeply) but it is still serviceable (the tip is missing, though).
 
I've got an old Camillus Pilot's Survival Knife that I bought at a flea market years and years ago. That thing could take a great edge, I mean shaving sharp. But, it wouldn't hold it exceptionally long. I mean, it had decent edge holding, but not great. And the tip is missing off it now. One good mis-hit on a stab, and off it came. I think that the only problem with the knife is maybe it is not that hard. Proably gives up a little hardness/edge holding to maintain a decent amount of toughness. But geez, it does come with a stone (or at least mine did), so there's no reason that you can't put the edge right back on it. I can tell you one thing: it will hold an edge better than a SAK!

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It's just a ****ing staple!
Outlaw_Dogboy, Pax River NAS, Republik of Marilundt

 
I have one of the things, I am not fond of it. The only reason I keep it is to use as a loaner.
It's alright for something that I paid less than $20 for, but if it got lost I would not be that upset.

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Joshua
But doom'd and devoted by vassal and lord.
MacGregor has still both his heart and his sword!
-MacGregor's Gathering, Sir Walter Scott
 
I find it interesting to look at a subject from two different points of view, sometimes. In this thread we've looked at the pilot survival knife from a "knife" aficionado's point of view, and as such, discovered limitations in it as a knife. It has rather unsophisticated steel, little asthetic value, and an inexpensive price (connoting lower quality). Now let's change points of view. Having been involved in military R&D (materiel acquisition) before I can tell you that the purchase of this knife was driven by a mission, a need requiring a solution. It probably went something like this: "Statement of Need: There is a requirement for a device/tool to enable downed aviators to extract themselves from their aircraft and survive on the battlefield until rescued. This device must accomplish the following tasks: (1) Pry open canopies. (2) cut plexiglas. (3) Perform as a survival knife. (4) perform the functions of a hammer....etc. It must have the following characteristics: (1) Be no longer than 10 inches. (2) Have a blade no longer than 5 inches. (3) Be non-reflective. (4) Have a rust inhibiting coating. (5) Weigh no more than X ounces. (6) Be sharpened in the field by using available sharpening systems.....etc."

What comes out of the above statements is something to fulfill the need. It may look like a knife, or it may look like a sharpened shovel or prybar depending on the priority given to the requirements. In this case, it looked like a knife. But in the military's point of view, it is a "tool" that happens to resemble a knife and meets the criteria (whatever it was way back then).

So when we look at military knives as knives, they usually don't measure up to our expectations, but when we look at them as tools to fill a need (and made by the least cost producer at the time), they look differently.

Just my perspective from having done this before (although not for knives).

Bruce Woodbury
 
I think I read on the Camillus forum that their heat treatment had undergone a vast improvement in newer pilot knives
Will ??

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BrianWE
ICQ #21525343




[This message has been edited by brian w edginton (edited 18 November 1999).]
 
must accomplish the following tasks: (1) Pry open canopies. (2) cut plexiglass
Click to expand...
Interesting that you should mention this. Back when I was flying in T-38's, there was a 'tool' supplied for the express purpose of shattering the canopy in the event that... I dunno... crashed and survived? Ran off the runway, crumpled the fuselage, and couldn't get the canopy to open? It was manually actuated (ie, bicep powered). Anyway, this tool looked a lot like a Camillus pilot's survival knife, except that the blade was shortened to about 1 to 1.5 inches, with no real cutting edge. But it looked like the tool for the job.
smile.gif


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It's just a ****ing staple!
Outlaw_Dogboy, Pax River NAS, Republik of Marilundt

 
I'm not sure what kind of steel it is but I can tell you that its not something I would waste a lot of time on. I've had several issued to me over the years and I can say that the only thing I have found them good for is ............well on second thought, I haven't found much use for one.

They are close to being worthless.

 
Blackhawk, I'll admit that the ones being issued (and purchased in the PX--same manufacturer) are not as good as they once were. Mine is vintage 1963 or 1964 and is a great knife. I purchased a couple of the new ones to give my sons for an inexpensive knife to "learn" on and the new blades are not as thick, ground as evenly, etc. with way to weak a point.

Bruce Woodbury
 
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