I have had and carried knives for years. Ive normally been able to keep mine realtively sharp with just a simple whetstone and a smiths sharpening block..But all that was 440C or similar. I just ordered a Rittter mini grip(which is a harder/better steel i hear) and I was wondering(since id read a few snippets of this steel being harder to sharpen) will my meager whetstone and Smiths sharpening block(looks like a block of wood into which i THINK(im not honestly sure what they are made of) you insert some kind of ceramic which forms a V shape then you sharpen you knife on them)...Or should I step up to something better? Im a pro by no means and im sure while i can keep my current knives sharp they could be better...and recomendations or is what I have ok?
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Anything more I need/should have for sharpening?
- Thread starter CBennett
- Start date
The Smiths sharpener you have might work just fine for touch ups, but it depends what angle the bevel on the knife is compared to the angles of the stones on the sharpener. You could use a Sharpie marker to color the bevel of the blade, then try your Smiths and see where the sharpie is being rubbed off. If you are hitting the tip of the cutting edge then that should work fine. But if you need to reprofile the whole bevel you would need a pretty coarse stone. Your whetstone might work just fine if it is coarse enough, do you know what grit it is? I use diamond stones for reprofiling and edge, and then use Spyderco Sharpmaker stones free hand to put a micro-bevel on, a micro-bevel is a tiny bevel at the very apex of the original bevel. The S30V blade on the Ritter you bought will probably just take longer to accomplish what you did with the 440c, using your set up you have now.
David Martin
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Learn how to free-hand sharpen and get a Norton combination crystollon stone. This will sharpen S30V. DM
BluntCut MetalWorks
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Which stone(s) - type & brand & grit - are you using?
I dont know ive had them forever no idea on grit. one is very coarse, one medium one very fine dont know if I ever knew the actual grit to them though.
BluntCut MetalWorks
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Google for tri-stone either Arkansas or Aluminum Oxide (aka India) then post a link to something look like your stone. If they are Arkansas stones, go with David's recommendation - get a Norton Crystalon 2x8 stone. Arkansas stones are too slow & soft for high alloy steel like s30v.
Lets see on the bigger stone it says Sharpmaster Silicon Carbide combination sharpening stone no grit listed just fine one side coarse other side but no grit..the other is just a little whetstone small about the size of a matchbox car but thinner ive literally had that(and the other stone) since 1988 or before. The Smiths block/ceramic "sticks" thing ive had since 1988 also...ive almost never used the coarse side just never get a knife THAT dull..used the fine side of the bigger one and the even finer smaller stone plenty and the sticks a LOT.
I probably need new stuff so im fully open to suggestions I will look into the Norton Crystalon 2X8...anything else? Ive also been recommend diamond stones...and even one of those complete "sharpening systems" that hold your knife at the "proper angle" and all that???
I probably need new stuff so im fully open to suggestions I will look into the Norton Crystalon 2X8...anything else? Ive also been recommend diamond stones...and even one of those complete "sharpening systems" that hold your knife at the "proper angle" and all that???
If you really wanna go for the freehand route, here's a portion of my synthetic stone setup.
There's the whole natural stone setup too, but that you can explore later.
And of course, there's nothing wrong with jigs and assisted sharpening devices either.
It all depends what you are going to be sharpening.
Razors? Kitchen knives? Japanese Swords?
There's a ton of nuance to all kinds of sharpening, but the following setup will handle just about anything and handle it well.
First try to get some kind of
1) Norton combination stone. They are cheap and consistent, and it'll let you know if you have the interest/knack for free-handing. ~ 100/400 grit
2) Diaface Coarse/extra-coarse: If you decide that you like it, then pick up a diamond plate. They don't need lapping, and they can be used to lap other stones later. Diaface coarse/extra-coarse ~300 grit.
3) Chosera 1k. Most new knives won't be sharp, but they'll have an acceptable shape aka geometry. Then all you need is to put an edge on the blade. 1k stones are made for this.
Very good utilitarian grit for pocket knives and camping knives.
4) Diaface Fine/extra-fine. Smoother lapping stone for higher grit stones. Also it has the ability to burnish a blade. Even though it's about 1200 grit, it'll shine up a metal like nobody's business. Probably the most unnecessary stone for this particular line up.
5) Naniwa SS 5k. While 1k edge is fine for most things, it's a bit aggressive, and sometimes you'd like it to be a bit smoother. Then get 5k. Most kitchen knives will react very well to 1k/5k progression.
It'll give you grit to bite into a tomato, and smoothness to shave some hair. Also a good grit for utility knife.
6) Naniwa SS 8k. If you want extra smoothness, maybe you are looking to polish up a blade, 8k is pretty safe bet.
7) Naniwa SS 12k. If you want sort of a mirror finish get this. Will put screaming edge on anything and polish the blade too. Considered good finisher for straight razors. That should tell you something about it's sharpness.
Starting from here, SS 12k (and sometimes from 8k depending on situations), you'll be able to do the circus tricks. Whittle hair, split hair, Hanging hair test, cutting extremely thin newspaper mid air, etc.
8) Escher. Sometimes it's good to throw a natural stone in the mix. Something like an Escher will put a mellow but extremely fine finish to an edge. Grit wise, probably close to SS 12k.
9) Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. Non-spray type hone with sub micron grit. Shapton 30k and Suehiro 20k are similar in grit size. Ultimate sharpness, but at the same time pretty fragile edge. This type of edge will not last more than a few swipes on a cardboard. But works damn well for something like razors, scalpels, and yanagiba.
Some people believe in the stone synergy. So when they have e.g. SS 5k, they'll get SS 8k, SS 12k, etc.
I'm not sure how much of that is just superstition.
But if you are going to believe in some of that, you might want to research the series before you invest on that first stone.
For example, in my line up, the SS series are "bound" by resin binders and they are much softer than other stones and are prone to being scooped by a blade.
The Chosera on the other hand has magensium binder and has much stronger constitution. They don't get stabbed at as easily, and that's something of a good thing.
If you have the interest I suggest trying this progression out.
I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with this line up.
You could go very far with just Chosera 1k or even just Norton combination stone.
I sharpened all my tools on cheap stones like Norton and Arkansas for 2 decades before I got into synthetics and Japanese naturals.
After a stone or two, you'll have researched enough to go on your own way.
But this should light some lamp post to help you along.
There's the whole natural stone setup too, but that you can explore later.
And of course, there's nothing wrong with jigs and assisted sharpening devices either.
It all depends what you are going to be sharpening.
Razors? Kitchen knives? Japanese Swords?
There's a ton of nuance to all kinds of sharpening, but the following setup will handle just about anything and handle it well.
First try to get some kind of
1) Norton combination stone. They are cheap and consistent, and it'll let you know if you have the interest/knack for free-handing. ~ 100/400 grit
2) Diaface Coarse/extra-coarse: If you decide that you like it, then pick up a diamond plate. They don't need lapping, and they can be used to lap other stones later. Diaface coarse/extra-coarse ~300 grit.
3) Chosera 1k. Most new knives won't be sharp, but they'll have an acceptable shape aka geometry. Then all you need is to put an edge on the blade. 1k stones are made for this.
Very good utilitarian grit for pocket knives and camping knives.
4) Diaface Fine/extra-fine. Smoother lapping stone for higher grit stones. Also it has the ability to burnish a blade. Even though it's about 1200 grit, it'll shine up a metal like nobody's business. Probably the most unnecessary stone for this particular line up.
5) Naniwa SS 5k. While 1k edge is fine for most things, it's a bit aggressive, and sometimes you'd like it to be a bit smoother. Then get 5k. Most kitchen knives will react very well to 1k/5k progression.
It'll give you grit to bite into a tomato, and smoothness to shave some hair. Also a good grit for utility knife.
6) Naniwa SS 8k. If you want extra smoothness, maybe you are looking to polish up a blade, 8k is pretty safe bet.
7) Naniwa SS 12k. If you want sort of a mirror finish get this. Will put screaming edge on anything and polish the blade too. Considered good finisher for straight razors. That should tell you something about it's sharpness.
Starting from here, SS 12k (and sometimes from 8k depending on situations), you'll be able to do the circus tricks. Whittle hair, split hair, Hanging hair test, cutting extremely thin newspaper mid air, etc.
8) Escher. Sometimes it's good to throw a natural stone in the mix. Something like an Escher will put a mellow but extremely fine finish to an edge. Grit wise, probably close to SS 12k.
9) Suehiro Gokumyo 20k. Non-spray type hone with sub micron grit. Shapton 30k and Suehiro 20k are similar in grit size. Ultimate sharpness, but at the same time pretty fragile edge. This type of edge will not last more than a few swipes on a cardboard. But works damn well for something like razors, scalpels, and yanagiba.
Some people believe in the stone synergy. So when they have e.g. SS 5k, they'll get SS 8k, SS 12k, etc.
I'm not sure how much of that is just superstition.
But if you are going to believe in some of that, you might want to research the series before you invest on that first stone.
For example, in my line up, the SS series are "bound" by resin binders and they are much softer than other stones and are prone to being scooped by a blade.
The Chosera on the other hand has magensium binder and has much stronger constitution. They don't get stabbed at as easily, and that's something of a good thing.
If you have the interest I suggest trying this progression out.
I can't imagine anyone being unhappy with this line up.
You could go very far with just Chosera 1k or even just Norton combination stone.
I sharpened all my tools on cheap stones like Norton and Arkansas for 2 decades before I got into synthetics and Japanese naturals.
After a stone or two, you'll have researched enough to go on your own way.
But this should light some lamp post to help you along.
Last edited:
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It seems like you are already competent at freehand sharpening via a whetstone, so I wouldn't think the sharpening system is necessary. Like the others have said, just make sure you have a quality stone capable of cutting the s30v relatively quickly. Norton India Fine/Coarse combo oilstone is nice and inexpensive. DMT makes a number of great diamond stones, but they can get a little pricey if you need every grit (you dont). Also, finish up on a leather strop with green compound for that polished edge. As for the sticks, they should cut fine, if slowly, but there is almost no chance of that angle matching up, so you may want to free hand that as well.
Edit- Was typing my response while xuz posted his, so yeah what he said. Then again, if you don't need your blade straight razor sharp and only want a utility edge, 1 or 2 combo stones and some stropping will get you there.
Edit- Was typing my response while xuz posted his, so yeah what he said. Then again, if you don't need your blade straight razor sharp and only want a utility edge, 1 or 2 combo stones and some stropping will get you there.
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BluntCut MetalWorks
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Good responses from Xuz & ThePerpetualNovice ...
I guess your SiC combo stone probably has similar grid as Norton Crystolon - coarse=180, fine=320 or something in that range. So, I recommend you hold off any purchase and use what you have for now. If the knife is dull, use 320 then ceramic stick. Use 180 to reprofile or fix damages. Of course diamond abrasive is best for abrading high alloy steels. Have extra $? upgrade to DMT 8" or 6" series (edge off EE stone is really nice - sticky & toothy & smooth slice). Strop is a cheap way to give your already sharp edge a scary status.
Thanks for all the replies so far guys im looking into maybe picking up a stone or 2 I dont own a strop nor have I ever used one so im kinda at a loss there. I just figured the system things gave you angles better than you could hold that was all or why I asked. thanks for all the help guys!
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This was my thought too. If you already have a silicon carbide stone, that'll easily handle all but the heaviest grinding chores on all but the most wear-resistant steels. If you do want something more, a diamond bench hone like DMT's C/F (in Dia-Sharp or Duo-Sharp) will handle whatever's left. And stropping is always advisable. Doesn't have to be complicated; the compound you choose will make the biggest difference, depending on the steel. Almost infinite possibilities for backing & substrate material to hold the compound: leather, cardboard, wood, paper, fabric, etc.
David
Can you give me a SIMPLE sharpening steps and stuff to use this is a TON of info...To be honest a good stone has been all ive ever used. How about maybe a 3-4 step process...with stones I guess and where do you guys get your stuff. I dont know all the knife abbreviations and stuff...so I guess so far im using
From reading and trying to take in all the info provided here would be my process:
1.Start with my current fine side stone that I have
2. then follow up with?
3. and finish with?
4. Extras?
My Questions:
"upgrade to DMT 8" or 6" series" what is this where do I get it?? or something similar to hit it with after the 320 grit on my current stone.
Heck even recommend me some youtube sharpening videos there is obviously a lot more to it than what ive been doing for 25+ years which is the fine 320 then the ceramic sticks and that was it...
Where do you guys get your stuff from...do I need to mail order it or can I get it from the local sporting goods stores?
From reading and trying to take in all the info provided here would be my process:
1.Start with my current fine side stone that I have
2. then follow up with?
3. and finish with?
4. Extras?
My Questions:
"upgrade to DMT 8" or 6" series" what is this where do I get it?? or something similar to hit it with after the 320 grit on my current stone.
Heck even recommend me some youtube sharpening videos there is obviously a lot more to it than what ive been doing for 25+ years which is the fine 320 then the ceramic sticks and that was it...
Where do you guys get your stuff from...do I need to mail order it or can I get it from the local sporting goods stores?
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- Jul 13, 2011
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SIMPLE sharpening steps in a 3-4 step process? I'll try:
1. Read all the stickies and watch all the vids referenced in this sub-forum
2. Buy a cheap Norton stone
3. Practice
4. Practice more
Here are answers to your specific questions:
Your description of your equipment is very vague. Pictures would be helpful.
1. Since I'm not sure what your "current fine side stone" is, I can't say.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. I don't know what you mean by "Extras."
In short, get the Norton, read posts/articles and watch vids voraciously, and practice. Then practice more. Sharpening a knife is really like playing an instrument. As long as it meets a minimum standard of quality, the instrument you buy isn't important and won't really affect your playing. It's the knowledge of the theory and lots of practice that make you good. In fact, getting the top-end instruments is self-defeating because it reinforces the false notion that a top-quality instrument will make you play better. And if you haven't played it before, you can't appreciate that high-end stuff, anyway. Sharpening, like playing an instrument, is about technique and practice. A $5 - $20 Norton stone is everything you need to get the technique and practice to become a better sharpener.
1. Read all the stickies and watch all the vids referenced in this sub-forum
2. Buy a cheap Norton stone
3. Practice
4. Practice more
Here are answers to your specific questions:
Your description of your equipment is very vague. Pictures would be helpful.
1. Since I'm not sure what your "current fine side stone" is, I can't say.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.
4. I don't know what you mean by "Extras."
In short, get the Norton, read posts/articles and watch vids voraciously, and practice. Then practice more. Sharpening a knife is really like playing an instrument. As long as it meets a minimum standard of quality, the instrument you buy isn't important and won't really affect your playing. It's the knowledge of the theory and lots of practice that make you good. In fact, getting the top-end instruments is self-defeating because it reinforces the false notion that a top-quality instrument will make you play better. And if you haven't played it before, you can't appreciate that high-end stuff, anyway. Sharpening, like playing an instrument, is about technique and practice. A $5 - $20 Norton stone is everything you need to get the technique and practice to become a better sharpener.
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