Apex Question

[ricklee4570]

I just got the Edge Pro Apex. I found it relatively easy to sharpen kitchen knives and medium size knives right off the bat. However, smaller blades are causing me trouble. My Leatherman Skeletool, my folding Kershaw pocket knife and my Victorinox Swiss Army knife are difficult to say the least. They don't sit without rocking on the table.

I'm a perfectionist when it comes to sharpening. I am not getting good consistency with the rocking on the table. Also, I'm having to rotate the knife to keep the edge parallel to the table while trying to keep the blade from rocking on the table!

How is this done with machine like accuracy? Honestly, I prefer locking it down in my Lansky and just concentrating on smooth swipes with the stones.

Any tips from Apex users would be appreciated! Too much money invested to give up on this!

 

[stitchawl]

A $3 adjustable clamp works for me. I have the same problem when trying to sharpen long thin blades (such as the Leatherman) and usually clamp it down. Something like
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/images/prod/5/Adjustable-Clamp-33018-rw-149818-254339.jpg works very well, and is quick and easy to tighten and release with one hand.

Stitchawl

 

[runk]

I use a piece of wood about 1/8 or 3/16 put under blade, and dont move the blade.
I keep a piece of balsa wood for this, easy to cut to the shape of the blade.
The master Ben Dale suggested it, works good on small blades.
gary

 

[cbwx34]

Don't use a clamp... it defeats the purpose and advantage of having an EP in the first place.

runk's advice is good, you can find how to do it on the EP website videos.

A couple of other tips:

Smaller blades can be sharpened without moving the blade side to side, so look for a stable position and just hold it there.

Make sure you set the blade stop so the edge just clears the table. (The top of the bevel should still be on the table). If you go to far, it creates the tendency for the blade to rock forward when you apply pressure with the stone. Especially important for smaller blades.

Don't use too much pressure, let the stone do its job. Also don't grip the knife and/or stone arm too hard.

Mostly just takes a bit of practice to get comfortable with it.

cbw

 

[stitchawl]

Don't use a clamp... it defeats the purpose and advantage of having an EP in the first place.

Sure wish you told me that 15 years ago...

I find the clamp very helpful on small blades when sharpening them on the EdgePro. The clamps are a one-hand operation taking almost 2 seconds to reposition, and solves the problem of joint pain when trying to hold small knives.


Stitchawl

 

[ricklee4570]

Thanks for the great ideas. Sometimes I overthink things. After watching the videos it does seem easy to master this.

Stitchawl, great idea with using the clamp, I can see where this would come in handy!

 

[cbwx34]

Sure wish you told me that 15 years ago...

I find the clamp very helpful on small blades when sharpening them on the EdgePro. The clamps are a one-hand operation taking almost 2 seconds to reposition, and solves the problem of joint pain when trying to hold small knives.


Stitchawl

Stitchawl,

Using a clamp to overcome a physical problem is a different issue entirely.

But suggesting a clamp to solve a problem with a knife style or sharpening issue, especially to a new user, again is unnecessary, and defeats the strengths of the EP. You've now basically handicapped a new user into using a clamp, when the simple answer is just to practice a bit, follow some other suggested tips, and you'll find you can get it sharp without one. Most small knives go so quickly, you'd spend more time clamping and unclamping it, then you would sharpening. If you're having physical pain, and it's not a health issue, you're probably gripping it too hard. Watching Ben's newer videos, where he demonstrates how the knife stays in place just being held between the blade table and stone arm, shows how little the knife needs to be held to stay in place, so it would have to be a pretty significant issue to even have the need for one.

So, you're right, I wish I had told you this 15 years ago too... you'd be better off not using it. Although I'm guessing after 15 years, now that you're depending on it, you probably won't agree. It may seem like a good idea, but it's not, and it's bad advice to pass on to someone just learning, who would otherwise probably "get it" without the need for one, and not defeat one of the biggest reasons for having an EP in the first place.

cbw

 

[stitchawl]

But suggesting a clamp to solve a problem with a knife style or sharpening issue, especially to a new user, again is unnecessary, and defeats the strengths of the EP.

Sorry, but I disagree completely.

You've now basically handicapped a new user into using a clamp,

What you see as a handicap I see as an advantage. It's all in the eyes of the user.

Most small knives go so quickly, you'd spend more time clamping and unclamping it, then you would sharpening.

Since clamping takes almost 2 full seconds, you must be a really fast sharpener!

So, you're right, I wish I had told you this 15 years ago too... you'd be better off not using it.

But golly, I LIKE using my EdgePro! Please don't tell me that I shouldn't use it! I find it to be the very best hand-powered sharpener on the market today. It works just fine for me and my methods of sharpening, even if I do like to use a clamp on small thin blades. I would NOT be better off not using it, so please get off your high horse and accept the fact that not everyone does things the way you want them to.

It may seem like a good idea, but it's not,

It may not be for you. Please don't think that you speak for everyone.

... and not defeat one of the biggest reasons for having an EP in the first place.
cbw

If speed is the biggest reason for you, perhaps you should use paper wheels.

For me, the biggest reason to use an EdgePro is the fact that it produces a perfect edge, and does so in minutes. So for people who share a similar reason for using one, a clamp is just another tool in the drawer to use when needed. We are not defeated by a $3 device. But thanks for sharing your views.

Stitchawl

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

I found using clamps the only way I could get the blade to stay still. I practiced a lot without clamps and didn't have much success holding it steady. Ultimately the clamps got to be a PITA (yes, even the one-handed quick-release ones) and I threw in the towel, selling my Apex. I guess I was simply one of the very few who couldn't get the hang of it. Oh well, it was the impetus for me to move forward with my interest in benchstones.

 

[cbwx34]

When I said "you'd be better off not using it", I was refering to the clamp, not the Edge Pro. So, no disagreement there.


Suggesting the use of a clamp on the EP is bad advice isn't my opinion, it's bad advice. Here's why:

The EP is designed to sharpen a knife without clamping it. It's a feature of the device. The blade table and stone arm essentially holds the blade in place. It may take some practice to find the "spot" on some knives, but it can be found. Using a clamp works against the design.

A sharpening device that clamps the blade, to be effective, allows the user to work both sides of the knife without unclamping and reclamping the blade. If it doesn't, (EP or others) it becomes a hinderance. Assuming you use the EP like most do, you go thru a series of stones, frequently alternating sides, usually finishing the blade by alternating sides between strokes. To say that clamping /unclamping the blade between each step isn't a handicap, or doesn't work against the way the EP works, defies logic. The alternative would be to alter how you sharpen the blade, which again takes away from how the EP works.

I'm all for having "another tool in the drawer", but it should be a tool that is necessary, beneficial, and warranted. Not one that works against the goal.

There's more but hopefully at least others get the point. Don't use a clamp on the EP. You gain nothing, at least nothing that can't be solved by taking a couple extra minutes to properly set up the machine and knife, and you lose the advatages and features that are designed into the Edge Pro, in fact, you work against them.

cbw

 

[stitchawl]

A sharpening device that clamps the blade, to be effective, allows the user to work both sides of the knife without unclamping and reclamping the blade. If it doesn't, (EP or others) it becomes a hinderance.

Oddly enough, I don't find anything hinders my effective use of the EdgePro.

Assuming you use the EP like most do, you go thru a series of stones, frequently alternating sides, usually finishing the blade by alternating sides between strokes.

YOU DO THAT! With every stone!

I only do that for the final polishing tape and the final 2-3 strokes when I don't use a clamp. We probably use the EdgePro differently. Alternating sides between every stroke certainly can't be seen in any of Ben Dale's instructional videos. Perhaps you're not using the EdgePro correctly?

To say that clamping /unclamping the blade between each step isn't a handicap, or doesn't work against the way the EP works, defies logic.

Well, yeah sure, if you're switching sides between every stroke with every stone. But it defies logic as to why one would do that. That's not how Ben teaches one to use the EdgePro. No wonder you have difficulty with the idea.

The alternative would be to alter how you sharpen the blade, which again takes away from how the EP works.

I guess that for the past 15 years I haven't been getting the full benifit of my EdgePro. But I can get a perfectly finished edge in just a few minutes with my method. I wonder how that could happen?

but it should be a tool that is necessary, beneficial, and warranted. Not one that works against the goal.

I have a feeling we have different goals in mind. Mine is to have a perfect edge in just a few minutes. The EdgePro does that for me.

Don't use a clamp on the EP. You gain nothing,

Perhaps the problem is with 'pronouns.' Maybe you should be saying "I don't gain anything" instead of 'you don't gain anything. Because there is no question about it that I find merit in the method.

you lose the advatages and features that are designed into the Edge Pro,

The only feature that is lost is the speed of turning over the blade to its opposite side. One feature. Fortunately, there are a dozen other features to the EdgePro that are much more important to me for its use. Ben has made several changes to his basic system over the years. I wouldn't be surprised to see more in the future.

You have your opinion. You are entitled to it. Please allow other people to have their own without ramming yours down our throats.


Stitchawl

 

[cbwx34]

No, no pronoun issue at all. Your advice is bad, and I don't want to see others, especially new users, adopting it, and losing the benefits of using the Edge Pro in the first place (which is more than speed btw).

You misinterpreted how I use the EP, so your response there doesn't reply. Alternating sides is done at the end, same as what you wrote. Which is interesing that you don't use a clamp. So, if you don't need one at this point, why do you need one at all?

Since you brought up the instructional videos, maybe you could show me where a clamp is ever recommended. I can show you where he demonstrates how the stone arm and the blade table sufficiently holds the blade in place.

I honestly can't figure out how, with as much experience as you have with the EP, you think using a clamp is a good idea. I think if you took a knife you normally would use a clamp on, and didn't, you would find it's probably an idea you adopted when you weren't experienced with the EP, that you really don't need... plus, you'll find the process to be better.

cbw

 

[stitchawl]

No, no pronoun issue at all. Your advice is bad, and I don't want to see others, especially new users, adopting it, and losing the benefits of using the Edge Pro in the first place (which is more than speed btw).

Whatever you say... You do what you want to do. Just please allow others to do what we want to do.

I honestly can't figure out how, with as much experience as you have with the EP, you think using a clamp is a good idea.

I'm sure you can't. That's your problem, not mine.

you'll find the process to be better.

Pronoun problems again. Unless you just insist on ramming your opinions down other people's throats. I'm sure that's not the case, so it must be a pronoun problem.


Stitchawl

 

[cbwx34]

[Youtube]CY6DJ0PQxyA[/Youtube]

5:03 - 5:20

Just about says it all. (Same principle applies to a small blade.)

cbw

 

[Nosmo]

I tried clamping small blades early on in my EP sharpening. A real pain.
However another real pain is to have the blade move/tilt while resting on the blade table. As we all know, it only takes one swipe of the stone at the wrong angle to ruin hours/minutes of work.

On those nasty small blades with two flat surfaces, where one has to chose, and stick to, one of them, I have started to use children's play dough or any other re usable putty. This stabilizes the blade and for me works well. The blade is lightly embedded in a piece of the putty and holds firm. Change over is quick and easy.

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

Is that Ben Dale in the vid? I remember a somewhat younger guy in the DVD instuctional video that came with my EP. He makes it look SO easy, and I noticed he said it might take around 15 or so blades before you get comfortable enough with the technique that you let your arm/hand that's holding the knife relax. Crud! I think I gave up too early. But after completing 3 or so knives and 'practicing' on many others (using PSA backed abrasive films on tape blanks instead of the stones to protect them while learning), I was clearly making no progress with getting my damned arm and hand to keep the blade steady; the sharpening arm didn't work as a 'pin' for me as I had to stop my stokes to reposition the blade. I really wanted this system to work out for me. I'm kinda bummed that it didn't. I really have to get some stones soon to perk me up.

 

[stitchawl]

I tried clamping small blades early on in my EP sharpening. A real pain.
However another real pain is to have the blade move/tilt while resting on the blade table. As we all know, it only takes one swipe of the stone at the wrong angle to ruin hours/minutes of work.

On those nasty small blades with two flat surfaces, where one has to chose, and stick to, one of them, I have started to use children's play dough or any other re usable putty. This stabilizes the blade and for me works well. The blade is lightly embedded in a piece of the putty and holds firm. Change over is quick and easy.

Very narrow short folder blades really can be a bother to keep still on the platform for many people. It's good that you found a method that works for you. Funny, but I tried putty (Blu-tak) first, but found IT a pain and moved to the clamp! Different strokes for different folks!
That is the beauty of hobbies.
Fortunately, I only have two knives that require it; the Leatherman Wave and a Japanese folder who's name has long been worn off the steel before I inherited the knife. That blade has THREE tiny surfaces on the side of a blade even narrower than the Leatherman Wave. Fortunately, thinking 'outside the box' allows us to easily put the type of edge we want on any shape of blade. :thumbup:


Stitchawl