Apogee blade shape

Recluse

Recluse

Joined
Jan 15, 2000
Messages
429
I was looking at this page at KnifeArt today:
http://www.knifeart.com/darylralph.html

at the Small Apogee and the Small Apogee Damascus and I noticed that they appear to have noticably different blade shapes. The damascus blade appears to be wider than the stainless blade with less recurve and a more pronounced thumb ramp. I was wondering if this is because one is of more recent production than the other, if the damascus blades are given their own distinct shape, or if they simply represent two of many possible shapes available on this model. Thanks.
 
recluse--you are very observant about the blade shapes. I bought an apogee from Ralph at the NYC show. Based upon what he saw when I showed him my knife, a friend thought it would be a good idea if he got one too. the knife he got has a broad thick blade with very little recurve and does not look any thing like the one that I originally showed him. He was very dissapointed that he paid close to $500 for the knife with grind marks and a non-functional ball detent. $500 could have well been spent on something else. My question is whether Mr. Ralph is too busy
 
I meant no criticism of Mr. Ralph's work by my question. Actually I like the look of the broader blade and the elevated thumb ramp and I was kind of hoping that the configuration was available in stainless as well as damascus. It's high time I got myself something nice..........

[This message has been edited by Recluse (edited 04-07-2000).]
 
Recluse
Yes the blades on the apogee differ a little from one to the next . They are custom made not laser cut. So from one blade to the next they vary . I feel this gives the person who buys them something special not just a cookie cutter blade. In the time frame of the New york show I was testing differnt blades shapes, edge thickness and spring tentions. I have settled on the blade shape that is being used now and the original more fighter type blade. They will vary still a little from knife to knife but not much. I also will take special orders for different blade shapes that are out there.

Roscoehound
At the time of the New Your show I was just recovering from a 1 week stay in the hospital . I was suffering from a blood clot in my leg and a very high blood sugar count. This caused my eyesite to be bad and deep depression in that time frame. I know this is no excuse but it is the truth. I have since recovered with diet, and medication to correct my conditions. My thinking was not as clear as it should have been. I thank god for his help. Its hell looking death in the eye.

As for the detent. Every detent is drilled for every blade one at a time. Some are stronger than others. They also vary with the strength of the spring. If your friend will send the knife I will look at it and take the detent a little deeper to make it detent better. As for the scratches I dont put damascus knives out with scratchs as a rule. If I missed something I will be glad to refinish the blade and re-etch it.

Mr Hound if you would like to give me a call or email I will clear any problem with my product.
I try to do my best .. thats all I can do.

I do appreciate your feedback and as stated and will take care of any situation that you are not happy with. I feel this is my job . I listen to all my clients and make adjustments as I go to make the best knife I can.

When you send the knife I will also retune it to updated standards and reano it.

I notice you dont have an email addy on the forums so I cannot send an email to you .Please post your address so I can send you the newer clip . Please include the clip length so I get the right one.
AS stated above I was trying different options for the apogee in that time frame and have settled in on the apogee configuration now.

On the new Every Day Carry Knives I have comming out I will be making a new clip that is just for this knife. I will be asking for your feedback on clips then I will design a clip just for this line.
On the EDC knives I have taken all the apogee updates and built it into this knife . So all the little comforts of the updated apogee will be
built in from the beginning on these knives.
To stop the cofusion on the blade style testing I will offer three different blades for the EDC line .
1.The Pit Bull will have a recurve modified Tanto with a two sided grind,2. the Dominator will have a Apogee type
recurve drop point and the 3. Fighter will have a Mid point fighter blade.

Thanks again for your feed back. I use all the information to update my knives as I go.
I feel this type of feed back helps me build the best knife I can.

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Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com



[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 04-07-2000).]
 
C O O L D A R R E L !
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Mark
 
When can we expect to see the new EDC designs Darrel? I was thinking of getting a small Apogee but might wait to see the new knives. Will they be frame locks? Any additional info would be appreciated. Back to the thread, I favor the more robust looking blades on the Apogees.

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It's only a mistake if you fail to learn from it!
 
Mr. Ralph

I am sorry to hear that you were ill at the time of the NYC show. Glad to hear that you are doing better.

I have no doubt that you try to do the best you can. Your work reflects that and that is the reason I wanted the Apogee, but at the sametime was dissapointed with the clip.

I know that knife making is labor intensive and that your profit margin per knife is probably pretty slim. I have no qualms plunking down $475-$500 for a quality piece because I know that there is cost to you to make the knife. However...$475-$500 is still alot of money for me. I am not a millionare. I have to budget carefully and make hard choices as to which knives I acquire. For instance at the NYC show I had to choose between the Apogee and AE's specter. I put the money on your table. And because I did make that choice, the clip does irritate me. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'm speaking in general here, but I think that if you pay around $500 for a knife, it should be pretty flawless. If it isn't then it shouldn't go on a maker's table for sale or be delivered, regardless of after-sale service turn around time. If I spend $500 for a knife I don't want to have to take the time to keep sending it back for corrections. The corrections should be made before it leaves the shop.

In general, and I don't know if it's just me, but I have noticed recently more knives that are put out for sale that should never have been. I don't know if those of us out here with the "knife jones" are being played for fools or what--with the expectation that we should be happy just to own a knife with the famous makers name on it regardless of poor quality control (again, Mr. Ralph, I am speaking in general here). I do know that my future choices will be influenced by the results of my past choices. One prominent duo sold me one knife with unequal blade grinds and another where the blade scrapes the handle. Is it too much to expect equal blade grinds and a centered blade for the money being shelled out? Or am I being unreasonble? I recognize that these are custom knives and some things will very from knife to knife, but that shouldn't be an excuse for quality control lapses. Nor, should a buyer be delivered a knife that has a completely different blade shape then what was seen in the trade mags and advertisements, custom or not.

I don't know maybe my expectations are too high. Please let me know if that is the case. Is $475-$500 the price now for a "field grade" knife and I shouldn't expect any more than that?

Again, Mr. Ralph, my above comments are general observations and complaints. Thank you for your offer to correct the clip. I have a friend though who has the skill and equipment to tap a 3d hole and put a screw in. I think that is the way I will go. I wish you continued success in your business.
 
roscoehound,

For instance at the NYC show I had to choose between the Apogee and AE's specter. I put the money on your table. And because I did make that choice, the clip does irritate me.
Click to expand...

My question to you roscoehound, why did you buy it then if you don't like the clip? I mean, afterall, you did see it first before buying the Apogee which most of us don't get a chance to see it first and up close before purchasing. You must have still thought it was worth Darrel Ralph's asking price even after you saw it or you wouldn't have bought it! Don't get me wrong roscoehound, but I'm just curious as to why you feel that way when you were given the chance to see it first before buying?

Mark

edited: ADDED:
P.S. I do realize where you are coming from as far as prices. One would expect a 500 dollar + knife to be near perfect and better than prodiction knives, but again customs knives are handmade, not machine made.
Customs are priced for their uniqueness, style, rarity, perfection, and most of all the handmade process. The value of a custom is also more likely to retain it's original value and increase in value with time more rapidly and moreso than production knives. Just like an artist and their paintings!
Again, if there was something I really didn't like with the knife and knew it before purchasing, I sure wouldn't have spent that kind of money on it then!


Darrel, glad you are feeling better now!
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[This message has been edited by Mark W Douglas (edited 04-10-2000).]
 
Mr. Douglas

I guess you guys from the Buckeye St. stick together. I did question Mr. Ralph at the NYC about the clip. He said that that was the way he was making the second round of them and that it was just as strong as if there were all three screws. So I thought if that is the way they all are going to be... I guess I'll get one. But, then after purchase I began to see different pictures of the Apogee very shorly thereafter with more refined clips and that third hole cut away. That's really when I became irritated about the clip on my version and felt that I had been shortchanged in away.

If your questioning my intelligence in still buying the knife when I had reservations about the clip--so be it. I don't claim to be the brightest person around and ultimately I guess it was my mistake to buy the knife. But if this market is becoming "buyer beware" then let me out. Plus, I'll also play the lack of sleep card. I was seriously jet lagged from flying the redeye in that day which must have clouded my judgement and not allowed me to see straight.

I do recognize the uniqueness of custom knives and the artistery involved. That is why I buy them, in addition to production knives. However, I don't think that putting a clip on with three holes and only putting two screws through is art. It may be unique, but it isn't art and it doesn't belong on a custom "piece of art." The rest of the knife is great, but it is not unlike framing a great painting with a garage sale frame that doesn't go with the painting.
 
I think the cool thing about customs is how much the makers strive to please us picky customers. I recently had my first custom knife made, and to tell the truth, when I opened that box, and unwrapped the bubble pack, I was a little dissapointed...I spotted two pretty big blems. I was initially hesitant to contact the maker, but I did anyway, and now he's remaking me the knife!

I think Mr. Ralph has done all one can ask. I realize that for $500, the knives that go on his table should be closely inspected. But the thing is, you bought it and later were dissapointed, and now he's willing to do what it takes to make it right. I think that's what a custom knife is really all about...the maker/customer interaction.

~Mitch
 
Rosco
I will be glad to update the clip for you with three screws. I guess I just have a clip thing. I dont really care for clips. I put them on for the client not for me.
I feel they are an add on to a work of art.
So I put them on so folks who carry them in this manner will be happy. As we spoke in Ny I feel that if you break two of the screws the other will go also.

I am not perfect.. And never will be.

As for your knife I will tap the knife for the third screw and make you happy.

Once again My products are not produced with
laser and so on.
SO each is a diifernt work in a simular shape.
Again in the time frame of the NY show I was
testing differnt shapes of blades. I feel this is my job as a knifemaker to do the best job I can in the time frame I am in at the time.
Sorry to hear about your other experiences with customs.

The apogee is built to be rebuildable. It was designed that way for folks like you.

Once again Please send the knife to me and I will Put the other screw in for you .




------------------
Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com

 
UW Mitch

As far as I am concerned that knife should never have left the shop if the blemishes were so obvious that you could detect them. Should the burdon be on you to detect the error(s) and ship the knife back, or on the maker to properly QC the knife before the delivery? I think the latter personally. After buying a car do you enjoy taking it back to the dealer constantly for adjustments? I don't. If that's the type of interaction you like, more power to you. to me it's an annoyance and something I should not have to do in the first place.

As to buying the knife in the first place--I have already admitted my mistake. But have you ever been to the feeding frenzy of a knife show? There is a somewhat artificial market at the shows, like if you don't get here you won't get one. Geez, you should have seen the frenzy over the Spyder wrench.
 
No matter how good is the original design, there will be areas to improve. He already promised to spend time and effort to make the modifications to the latest and greatest version for you.

As a customer myself, I don't know what else I can ask from a custom maker who stands by his own products.

~Ted
 
roscoehound,

You got that right! I wonder if Hargrove carries any knives on his person now? After all he was stabbed in the back!
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Mark
 
I just received a small Apogee and I must say I'm quite taken with it, the only thing I'd change is the thickness of the blade as it goes down to the edge, it seems a bit thick for slicing, it still takes a very good edge and is sharp, but not a great slicer.

I've thought about dissassembling the knife and taking the blade out, clamping it down on a block of wood and hand sanding the blade thinner, using a strip of sandpaper tacked onto a long narrow piece of wood. I know it will take a while but this way it won't get hot.

The handles are a well made and a good working knife. Nice job Darrel, very nice.

G2

------------------
"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
Here is that small Apogee that I got, the scan really doesn't do the handles justice....

apogee.jpg


G2

------------------
"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...


G2 LeatherWorks
 
Gary & Darrel, that knife is beautiful!

Gary, if it were me, I would love the fact that the blade is thick. I can't stand thin blades at all! You are a lucky guy Gary to have that masterpiece of a knife
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Darrel, beautiful work you did on Gary's knife, the anodizing is fantastic! What an artist you are! A real profectionist I can see!!
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Mark
 
Mark, it's growing on me, I sharpened it and did some cuts and it does work well, I'm worried about the trade that I did on getting this, I sent the knife in trade through the mail system, priority mail and it should have been there last Friday, well it didn't make it as of today! If it doesn't show up today I'll have to fill out the fun paper work and try to get them to find where the box is setting!

Sad G2,
 
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