I bought one of these about 4 years ago, because I found it at an insurance liquidator store at a good price, and it seemed kind of neat. It is a big knife, with a belt pouch for carry. I have never carried, or used it much. Recently I have read some posts idicating that the earlier, full-sized Applegate combat folders might not have trusworthy locks. Others seem to question the steel used in construction. What is the lowdown on these knives ? Since I never carry a knife for self-defense, and am unlikely to ever use a knife in a "tachtical" situation, the issue is somewhat academic, but I would still like to know. I have a son who is a senior in high school, and is likely to join the military soon. I may give him the knife when the time comes. Should he ever be about to enter a situation where carrying a "tachtical" folder is a wise thing to do, I don't want to give him a knife that is likely to fail him. Thanks for any insights !
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Applegate-Fairbairn Combat Folder
- Thread starter arnie
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I've owned 2 Applegate Combat folders. The first one I had came with the gun holster type sheath and the second one came with the standard Gerber velcro flap sheath. Neither of my models have exhibited any type of lock failure. You can try the popular "spine whack" test to see how the lock holds.
GigOne
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I purchased 2 also. . .some 4 years ago. There was a toss up between the Combat and the Covert. Of course. . .the Covert lost. I purchased mine with the intent of using them on the job as a throw away or use and forget folder.
Both are still with me. One has been hard used (on the job) and the other is new-in-sheath (sheath has see some very minor use).
I too have read some not so good things about the Combat. . .but my experiences (in the field) with the knife contradict what I've read !
Mine came with the 425 modified SS blade (serrated). It sharpens easily in the field and retains a very sharp edge. The handle/scales retain a very consistent grip in all environmental conditions. They too take a pretty good beating. I've never had the lock fail in any of the uses that the knife has been through. Personally. . .I don't believe in the spine whack test !
I've used it for it's intended purposes (it's not used as a screw driver, hammer nor pry bar) and it has served me very well ! I definitely feel that it's a solid and exceptional "starter" blade !
Both are still with me. One has been hard used (on the job) and the other is new-in-sheath (sheath has see some very minor use).
I too have read some not so good things about the Combat. . .but my experiences (in the field) with the knife contradict what I've read !
Mine came with the 425 modified SS blade (serrated). It sharpens easily in the field and retains a very sharp edge. The handle/scales retain a very consistent grip in all environmental conditions. They too take a pretty good beating. I've never had the lock fail in any of the uses that the knife has been through. Personally. . .I don't believe in the spine whack test !
I've used it for it's intended purposes (it's not used as a screw driver, hammer nor pry bar) and it has served me very well ! I definitely feel that it's a solid and exceptional "starter" blade !
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Since its smaller cousin - the Covert - is equipped with both ATS-34 steel and the liner lock safety, I'd recommend the Covert, if one should ever have to decide between the two. It's a pity that the Combat does not have a clip!
Gig one........Boy!! you'er on the money!!! Spine whack test and such
are totally useless in real world use. People have more than a little tendancy
to forget that a lock ,any lock, is there to hold the blade on a FOLDING knife
open. Not turn the knife into a fixed blade.
Those new to the knife hobby often get caught up in all the lock talk here and
forget that all a lock does is add SOME saftey not garranty the blade will always
stay open. I think that our younger folk's never learning about knives with
slipjoints when they were "kids". Never learning that blades are ment to be pushed
not pulled or lifted or pryed with.
My experiance with the both the Combat and Covert is positive because I use
these knives correctly and ,at times, hard. They have yet to fail.
are totally useless in real world use. People have more than a little tendancy
to forget that a lock ,any lock, is there to hold the blade on a FOLDING knife
open. Not turn the knife into a fixed blade.
Those new to the knife hobby often get caught up in all the lock talk here and
forget that all a lock does is add SOME saftey not garranty the blade will always
stay open. I think that our younger folk's never learning about knives with
slipjoints when they were "kids". Never learning that blades are ment to be pushed
not pulled or lifted or pryed with.
My experiance with the both the Combat and Covert is positive because I use
these knives correctly and ,at times, hard. They have yet to fail.
My comments apply to the AF I own - my experience may or may not be representative of the entire line, or at least the earlier production run.
The folder touts/touted itself as a fighting knife, albeit a folder. I have no illusions about the limitations of any folder when compared to a fixed blade. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. Anyone with even a modicum of training will use the appropriate technique for the "tool" in hand, or at least try to.
Having said all that, my A/F's lock is so poor it is dangerous. It would be better if it had no lock at all. All the lock does is give people a false sense of security. The crappiness of the lock is not just true in absolute terms but also relative to other knives out there. It's the worst I've seen in a "quality" knife.
Other people have had similar experiences. Some of them posted before on older threads.
I would not trust any of the older knives at all. About 4 years old sounds about right, but i do not remember precisely how old mine is. If you know how to test one safely, do that before buying one or performing any techniques that require you to depend on that lock.
Actually, that's good advice for almost any knife.
Personally, I'd rather not rely on any lock and in critical or risky applications, I use a fixed blade. That's just my personal opinion.
The folder touts/touted itself as a fighting knife, albeit a folder. I have no illusions about the limitations of any folder when compared to a fixed blade. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. Anyone with even a modicum of training will use the appropriate technique for the "tool" in hand, or at least try to.
Having said all that, my A/F's lock is so poor it is dangerous. It would be better if it had no lock at all. All the lock does is give people a false sense of security. The crappiness of the lock is not just true in absolute terms but also relative to other knives out there. It's the worst I've seen in a "quality" knife.
Other people have had similar experiences. Some of them posted before on older threads.
I would not trust any of the older knives at all. About 4 years old sounds about right, but i do not remember precisely how old mine is. If you know how to test one safely, do that before buying one or performing any techniques that require you to depend on that lock.
Actually, that's good advice for almost any knife.
Personally, I'd rather not rely on any lock and in critical or risky applications, I use a fixed blade. That's just my personal opinion.
The spine whack test is valid...very valid in fact in showing if your knife's lock will disengage if its spine is whacked on a table. This of course constituting as abuse to the knife and just in my opinion a rather stupid thing to do. There are certainly people who swear by this super testing method and I don't fault them, but they're not evaluating MY knives 
.
Arnie, my advice is to simply closely examine your knife. Try opening the blade very slowly until it locks into place and note the position of the locking liner on the blade tang. Then unlock and close the blade half-way. Now, using your thumb or even a flick your wrist snap the blade open again noting the position of the liner on the blade. On very secure knives the position difference is often negligible but is not necessarily a guarantee of a solid lockup. Try wiggling the blade back and forth and side to side when locked open. A little side to side play is ok but there shouldn't be any back and forth play.
Nice knife, almost got one once but was too pricey in relation to other knives with like features and more comfortable handles.
.Arnie, my advice is to simply closely examine your knife. Try opening the blade very slowly until it locks into place and note the position of the locking liner on the blade tang. Then unlock and close the blade half-way. Now, using your thumb or even a flick your wrist snap the blade open again noting the position of the liner on the blade. On very secure knives the position difference is often negligible but is not necessarily a guarantee of a solid lockup. Try wiggling the blade back and forth and side to side when locked open. A little side to side play is ok but there shouldn't be any back and forth play.
Nice knife, almost got one once but was too pricey in relation to other knives with like features and more comfortable handles.
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- Sep 2, 2001
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- 252
I love the basic design for fighting. Good grip, blade, and action, But I'd definitely go with the covert. I just trust the liner lock more. What I'd really like to see is an axis, or other lock system on it. The SOG pentagon looks close, but it's an auto, which I can't get.
Ah well, you can't have everything, where would you put it?
Ah well, you can't have everything, where would you put it?
I picked one up about 7 years ago in Alaska and used it extensively at work and never had a problem. It holds a nice edge and it very easy to wield. Never tried the "whack" test, seems kinda dumb to try and break a knife you've spent good $$$ on. I have absolutely no reservations about it's use in a tactical situation, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.
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Are you referring to the SOG Pentagon Elite? It's not an auto, so it's perfectly legal for you to buy one. It has SOG's Arc-Lock mechanism similar to Benchmade's Axis lock.
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Just out of curiosity I went and did the spine whack test on my Applegate and it passed. The lockup is still tight with no bladeplay in any direction. It's still a good quality knife in my opinion despite the 425M steel and even if I find any problems with it, I can always send it back to Gerber. I too love the design, but if I had any gripe about this knife it would have to be the crappy velcro flap sheath. I liked the gun holster type sheath the original versions came with, except that the belt loops were small, but instead of making the loops larger, they decided to release them with the standard velcro flap sheaths. Yuk! :barf:
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...but I inherently distrust 'bending' knives...
If ya want to know if your lock is going to fail...don't go beating it on anything...
Just squeeze the bejesus out of it using the most basic of grips...and apply a little downward pressure with your other hand...light mind you, just enough to 'break' the lock up...
You'll probably find that most of your locks will 'lift' when you do this...at least all the name brand lockbacks and liner locks I've had would...
Mel
If ya want to know if your lock is going to fail...don't go beating it on anything...
Just squeeze the bejesus out of it using the most basic of grips...and apply a little downward pressure with your other hand...light mind you, just enough to 'break' the lock up...
You'll probably find that most of your locks will 'lift' when you do this...at least all the name brand lockbacks and liner locks I've had would...
Mel
I'm glad this topic came up. I was going to post on it myself as I
wanted reasons to order one of these beauties. I had the Covert and
found it frankly annoying compared to it's bigger hand-filling brother. I had the wall plaque hand ground double edged version and a standard production one which failed every time with a light tap on the palm of the hand. I sold them but it's been bugging me ever since and I'm gearing up to replace them with a new one. I'm sure mine was ATS-34 though? Long time ago.
Has anyone bought one recently who can give feedback about whether this quality control issue has been resolved?
Kallisti
wanted reasons to order one of these beauties. I had the Covert and
found it frankly annoying compared to it's bigger hand-filling brother. I had the wall plaque hand ground double edged version and a standard production one which failed every time with a light tap on the palm of the hand. I sold them but it's been bugging me ever since and I'm gearing up to replace them with a new one. I'm sure mine was ATS-34 though? Long time ago.
Has anyone bought one recently who can give feedback about whether this quality control issue has been resolved?
Kallisti
Applegate/Fairbairn Fullsize folder. Best knife I have ever owned, seems indestructable, has an great blade, locks rock solid, opens REAL quick for a manual. You should see peoples eyes when I take it out and have it opened in a blink of an eye. I have had it 2 years and use it for everything from box cutter ( Hard to believe how fast cardboard can dull a sharp blade in a so-so knife) to steak knife in restraunts when they give me a crappy knife (fiance HATES that). The handle feels good and doesn't slip Cost me $85 out the door discounted because I also bought it's little brother wich has a pocket clip as well at the same time for $105.
Spine whack test my ass. It has passed every grunt chore I have given it in 2 years of hard border line abusive use. If it was gonna fail me it would have by know, my only complaint is that it is just now getting kinda dull. I dont use it as a chisel, pry bar or screw driver. I use it to cut things, go figure!
Bryan
Spine whack test my ass. It has passed every grunt chore I have given it in 2 years of hard border line abusive use. If it was gonna fail me it would have by know, my only complaint is that it is just now getting kinda dull. I dont use it as a chisel, pry bar or screw driver. I use it to cut things, go figure!
Bryan
An update to my post above -
I bought a new A/F folder. On the new one the lock is rock solid and the back edge is enclosed in the handle (unlike the previous production model I had).
Good to have it back. Also, now I have a use for the Newt Livesay A/F kydex sheath I had hanging around.
Kallisti.
I bought a new A/F folder. On the new one the lock is rock solid and the back edge is enclosed in the handle (unlike the previous production model I had).
Good to have it back. Also, now I have a use for the Newt Livesay A/F kydex sheath I had hanging around.
Kallisti.
I've had one now for about 4 years and next to my BM 942 its the hardest working, take unlimited abuse knife I own. I've used it gardening, splitting open plastic containers that plants come in, cutting sod, cutting plastic liners for ponds (underwater), camping, working on cars (cutting hoses and belts) and have never had the least bit of problem with it. Well I'll take that back, it came with the holster type of sheath and the plastic male side of the snap broke off, but I just added a clip and didn't miss a beat. They're a great knife for the money.
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I've been spine-wacking my fixed blades and so far have not found a problem.
Bob Kasper approves of spine wacking, as does Steven Dick, John Larsen, Ralph Mroz and Jerry Van Cook. Kasper says he whacks first, then does a gorrila grip / butt end twist as a torque test. He goes on to say that, "if the knife fails the spine whack test, it does not go into my pocket."
Do these guys have any credentials to the extent that we should be heeding what they say?
I will go so far as to give my blades a spinal tap in order to really see what the story is.
Applegate Fairburn is a very popular and well made knife. The covert model does come with LAWKS, in an excellent position on the handle for easy deployment.
Bob Kasper approves of spine wacking, as does Steven Dick, John Larsen, Ralph Mroz and Jerry Van Cook. Kasper says he whacks first, then does a gorrila grip / butt end twist as a torque test. He goes on to say that, "if the knife fails the spine whack test, it does not go into my pocket."
Do these guys have any credentials to the extent that we should be heeding what they say?
I will go so far as to give my blades a spinal tap in order to really see what the story is.
Applegate Fairburn is a very popular and well made knife. The covert model does come with LAWKS, in an excellent position on the handle for easy deployment.