apples and oranges you'll say..

B

BruceMack

Joined
May 20, 2015
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Today I drove to St. Cloud, MN to attend a Hand tool Event given by the premier maker of metal handplanes in the world. These are based on British Stanley planes from the days when a craftsman lived by his skills as translated by his tools. Made beautifully of cast ductile iron, manganese bronze, and A2 cutting steel, with cherry handles and knobs, their prices remain the same for as long as a decade. The events are conducted by pleasant and skilled woodworkers, employees of the company. My favorite plane is a 5 1/2 pound #4-1/2 smooth plane, so called because its function is to smooth and, to a lesser degree, thickness the surface of a board. Properly adjusted and skillfully used it reveals the currents of rising and descending fibers (called "figure'', not grain) leaving a lustre and surface smoothness not achievable with other milling methods or sanding. This glorious tool costs $325. Other tools - planes, chisels, saws, and spokeshaves are exquisite too, fairly and consistently priced. The company is Lie-Nielsen (mods - apologies and please remove if this naming not permissible).
You ask what relevance this has to knives? Well, these iconic tools are edge tools quite as precise as folding knives and subjected to knots, mineral inclusions, and gnarly boards, while expected to create translucent wood curls which they do easily,
They last forever, earn some a living and do not exceed inflation in their pricing. I contend that certain knife models draw on an unwarranted prestige and cost far too much for what is offered - slaughter of Amazon boxes and trimming of feather sticks. Manufacturers, you know who you are. Ok, kill me.
 
BruceMack said:
Today I drove to St. Cloud, MN to attend a Hand tool Event given by the premier maker of metal handplanes in the world. These are based on British Stanley planes from the days when a craftsman lived by his skills as translated by his tools. Made beautifully of cast ductile iron, manganese bronze, and A2 cutting steel, with cherry handles and knobs, their prices remain the same for as long as a decade. The events are conducted by pleasant and skilled woodworkers, employees of the company. My favorite plane is a 5 1/2 pound #4-1/2 smooth plane, so called because its function is to smooth and, to a lesser degree, thickness the surface of a board. Properly adjusted and skillfully used it reveals the currents of rising and descending fibers (called "figure'', not grain) leaving a lustre and surface smoothness not achievable with other milling methods or sanding. This glorious tool costs $325. Other tools - planes, chisels, saws, and spokeshaves are exquisite too, fairly and consistently priced. The company is Lie-Nielsen (mods - apologies and please remove if this naming not permissible).
You ask what relevance this has to knives? Well, these iconic tools are edge tools quite as precise as folding knives and subjected to knots, mineral inclusions, and gnarly boards, while expected to create translucent wood curls which they do easily,
They last forever, earn some a living and do not exceed inflation in their pricing. I contend that certain knife models draw on an unwarranted prestige and cost far too much for what is offered - slaughter of Amazon boxes and trimming of feather sticks. Manufacturers, you know who you are. Ok, kill me.
Click to expand...

Cool story bro.

O_o :confused:
 
I understand the OP. A well maintained and high quality hand plane is a thing of beauty & precision. It's a real joy to use if you have woodwork to do.

It also employs a blade, so it definitely is not apples to oranges on a purely blade & steel sense.
The part which will lose the crowd is the very last sentence... saying that regular high end knives are overpriced for what is offered & what they 'normally' do. I have to take some exception to that statement, it really assumes waaay too much about everyone in bf.

Some of us have used, & even appreciate a high quality hand plane.

The op may not be aware of pm steels, and how high tech some high end knives really are. The op would benefit greatly reading some of the more in depth threads and learning much more before jumping to conclusions.

I will only go as far as to say that 'some' knives are overpriced for what you get. That exists in all things, it's the nature of the beast when marketing & maxing profits gets involved ; )
 
Apples and oranges I say. :D

Hey, edged tool is an edged tool. Has a blade? Some kind of handle? Cool. Lets see some pictures. You got me interested. :thumbsup:
 
ok
GW200801_p091.jpg
 
Well yes, to some degree modern knives are overpriced for what they do. But on the other hand, I think that they went a hell-of-a-lot longer way in their evolution in past 60 years then like plane irons.
I dont think that plane iron from 1960 is any significantly different then modern made plane iron.
However, pocket knives from 1960 are in most way quite different from today´s knives. A lot more progress in locks and steels.
 
I know what you are saying. And yes a thousand dollar pocket knife isn't going to produce as much as a $500 hand plane.

BUT
. . . and my but is pretty big . . .

sounds like you've been reading their catalog.
Lie Neilsen Planes are nice planes. I have a pile of them.
I actually prefer Lee Valley specifically their bevel up Jointer and Big O' wide smoother. Now those are serious performers ! ! !

How ever (but)

There is a whole 'nother world waiting for you out there . . .
BruceMack said:
the premier maker of metal handplanes in the world.
Click to expand...

LN and LV . . . in a word
aint. :)

You might want to take a gander at my bro's work in New Zealand
Look up Marcou Planes.
Have your significant other hold onto your wallet for you; we are talking multi thousand dollar hand planes.
Fact is . . . until a few years ago he would even graciously bow out and point you to Karl Holtey.
. . . oh dude ! ! ! !
I just looked him up and he didn't retire so KH is still working and producing what, undisputably IS the finest hand planes in the world.
We are talking $10,000 a decade ago. I didn't even look at the current prices.
Link to photo > > > >
Link to photo > > > >


So yeah . . .
I like pocket knives.
 
unwisefool said:
...what?
Click to expand...
It's knot head talk.
Here is one of my planes (the Lee Valley Smoother) taking those thin shavings Bruce is talking about.
That's Bubbinga wood and it's no joke getting that to happen with this type of wood. It takes a real expert to get those funny bevel down planes to do this same thing and it isn't as much fun as using the "bevel up" style plane in the photo. What I'm saying is I'm no expert and the plane in the photo makes it easy(ish).

PS: Well that link sucked try this one. Page down to the eleventh photo (pile of shavings on a table top).
Link to photo > > >
 
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I was so bad at woodworking that in order to pass senior woodshop I had to claim that my project had been vandalized (by me) and throw myself on the mercy of the instructor ...

I love and appreciate fine woodworking... I just have zero aptitude for it...
 
Pharmagator said:
I was so bad at woodworking that in order to pass senior woodshop I had to claim that my project had been vandalized (by me) and throw myself on the mercy of the instructor ...

I love and appreciate fine woodworking... I just have zero aptitude for it...
Click to expand...
That was me as well dude.
I had a decent instructor but not enough time to practice.
and
I just wanted to be in metal class but it was always full.

fast forward twenty years and I became obsessed with learning REAL hand tool woodworking.
It took me ten years of reading and practicing . . . lots of practicing . . . practice, practice, practice.

You to can do it !:thumbsup:
 
BruceMack said:
They last forever, earn some a living and do not exceed inflation in their pricing. I contend that certain knife models draw on an unwarranted prestige and cost far too much for what is offered - slaughter of Amazon boxes and trimming of feather sticks. Manufacturers, you know who you are. Ok, kill me.
Click to expand...

Manufacturers set the prices, but the consumers determine what is successful. Also, it is the person who owns the knife that decides what it will be used for. Some people use their Sebenza in construction work. Some people collect ZTs and put them in a glass case. Etc etc etc. If handplanes had more mass appeal, you would see the same market and price spread that you see in pocket knives. Also, what is and isn't overpriced is wholly subjective - you'll find people here who think anything more than an SAK is just masturbatory, and you'll find others that think every penny spent on a Rockstead is entirely justified. This applies to just about anything. Computers, headphones, phones, wallets, dishware, furniture, shoes...

I feel like you're trying to make a point about these planing tools' utilitarian purpose making them somehow a purer artform or something along those lines, but, yeah, it's definitely an apples to oranges comparison. Hand planes are woodworking tools (exclusively?), while a pocket knife is a portable cutting tool that can be used for a variety of situations. That both have edges is really the only thing linking the two... And, realistically, a modern shaving razor has more common elements with them than a modern pocket knife does.
 
I have tried... One of my friends is a successful cabinet maker (high end) and we worked together in his shop one weekend because I really wanted to make woodworking my hobby ... Two major injuries in two days had him ask me to find a different hobby... I chose guitar playing...
 
Pharmagator said:
I have tried... One of my friends is a successful cabinet maker (high end) and we worked together in his shop one weekend because I really wanted to make woodworking my hobby ... Two major injuries in two days had him ask me to find a different hobby... I chose guitar playing...
Click to expand...
Sorry . . . that got me to laugh and smile.
I hope you are alright.
Many will tell you that if I ATTEMPTED to sing or play an instrument that I would do major injury to their ears. :(
I think we both chose wisely. ;)
 
Comeuppance said:
Hand planes are woodworking tools (exclusively?),
Click to expand...
Well generally you are correct sir.
Wood and ice mostly.

But you know me; I like to explore the boundaries / push that envelope / go where kno knife dude has gone before.
You remember my Grail.
Link to lots of photos >>>>
Wood saw and chisel and other woodworking tools at work on a knife mod that is not wood.
page down to see the small plane at work on Cold Steel plastic handle scales.
 
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