Appropriate Steel for the Knife Abuser

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Cushing H.

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Jun 3, 2019
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No flames on this please - as I am well aware that some of the steels I am about to mention none of you would go near (and neither would I for personal use!).

I am considering making a knife for my son, who likes to cook but, well, can be somewhat nasty to them. Does a lot of slicing (relatively benign to the blade), occasional chopping (but mostly rocking motion ... not the over the head kind of thing) ... and a lot of vegetables and sometimes meat. The thing is he does NOT keep his blades dry. He indicates he will not wipe them off and cleans and puts them away "when he gets around to it." He also is not really proficient at sharpening (I guess I need to get him an ugly electric kitchen top sharpener :-(. So ... if I make this knife, I need the following combination:
1) highly stain/rust resistant
2) easy to sharpen (without destroying the edge)
3) moderate edge retention

I am WAY behind on the gamut of available steels (still mostly thinking about the suite of materials discussed by David Boye (I have the original printing shows my age and starting point :( ) ... but from what I can see on the web now, and looking at the compromises, I came up with a short list of:
  • 420HC (no flames on this!) - which does not appear to be available anyway
  • CTS-BD1 - appears to lag somewhat in stain resistance and sharpenability
  • N680 - lags a little in shapenability, but reasonable retention and stain resistance (also, I only see N690 out there as stock - how similar is N690 to N680?)
I would love to go VG-10 and offer to keep his knives sharp for him ... but he lives half a continent away, so that is not an option...

What is the groups thoughts on a reasonable steel (that is available) for the balance I need to strike? In one of "420HC stinks" threads, several have mentioned CPM154/ATS34 and AEB-L but I am not sure if any of these strike (or can be made to strike) the balance (by the latter, I am thinking that with an appropriate stock I could temper to a lower Rockwell (56-58?) to give him his sharpenability).

I look forward to your advise!
 
AEB-L would be the obvious choice.

On the other hand your son sounds a lot like my brother.
I made him a very thin santoku out of A2 with black micarta handle, 60 hardness.
It isn't stainless at all, but quickly developed a patina and 5 years later he was still raving about it being their best knife.
 
Cushing H. said:
1) highly stain/rust resistant
2) easy to sharpen (without destroying the edge)
3) moderate edge retention
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That IS the description of AEB-L to a "T". Except you left out that it is the toughest stainless steel. Although I understand if you crank it up to 63 it holds an edge pretty well and is still tough and reasonable easy to sharpen. I'd take it up to 61 at least. I'm making knives for my sisters and brothers in law out of AEB-L for the same reasons you outlined.
 
A-EBL would be a good choice.

My personal preferred steel is S-35VN. Hard, tough, very sharp, holds an edge well. A bit harder to sharpen, but keeps an edge a long time.
 
AEB-L should be your choice. Toughest stainless steel with good edge retention. There are even tougher stainless alloys, but won’t be good for kitchen knives, just for choppers or “survival” type knives.
 
DrHenley said:
That IS the description of AEB-L to a "T". Except you left out that it is the toughest stainless steel. Although I understand if you crank it up to 63 it holds an edge pretty well and is still tough and reasonable easy to sharpen. I'd take it up to 61 at least. I'm making knives for my sisters and brothers in law out of AEB-L for the same reasons you outlined.
Click to expand...
hugofeynman said:
AEB-L should be your choice. Toughest stainless steel with good edge retention. There are even tougher stainless alloys, but won’t be good for kitchen knives, just for choppers or “survival” type knives.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear - he does not physically abuse the knives, so I am not concerned about toughness (within limits). If the hardness is taken up to at least 61, will that not make them harder to sharpen? He does not know how to sharpen, so I will likely need to get him a lower-end counter sharpener that likely none on the forum would go to, and keep the hardness down so as to make the cheap sharpener work reasonably well. or am I thinking about that wrong?
 
Go to local restaurant supply house and get a Dexter or two. Basically made to be abused in a commercial kitchen. When too dull, replace.
scott
 
Cushing H. said:
Just to be clear - he does not physically abuse the knives, so I am not concerned about toughness (within limits). If the hardness is taken up to at least 61, will that not make them harder to sharpen? He does not know how to sharpen, so I will likely need to get him a lower-end counter sharpener that likely none on the forum would go to, and keep the hardness down so as to make the cheap sharpener work reasonably well. or am I thinking about that wrong?
Click to expand...

AEB-L at 58hrc should be relatively easy to sharpen and still my first choice for a multi purpose kitchen knife.
 
AEBL gets my vote too. I disagree about running it in the 50's. It holds up better at 60-61, has better rust resistance, and still isn't too bad to sharpen due to the very low carbide volume. No good reason to run a kitchen knife that soft today and the softer steel blunts and rolls worse. I think the lower hardness is just a hedge against a brittle blade from a poor heat treat and isn't really necessary with good steel and good HT.

It doesn't have outstanding rust resistance, only good. It will stain some with neglect, but nothing functional.
 
Niolox
I use it in my kitchen and don't take care of it.
It doesn't stain and stays sharp a long time
 
And give him a diamond sharpening rod and a sharpening steel from goodwill - if he can follow basic directions he should be able to keep it sharp-ish
 
Most of the stainless we see is AEBL and 61-62rc is almost allways the requested hardness.
 
Hengelo_77 said:
Niolox
I use it in my kitchen and don't take care of it.
It doesn't stain and stays sharp a long time
Click to expand...
I'd love to try some Niolox for some skinners. I can't find it anywhere here in the US. Does anyone know where I can order some?
 
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I would like to to offer another option. The past few years I have gone all in on course grit sharpening. After one of Larrins articles I switched from medium to course DMT stones. If you are thin at the edge and the blade is on the hard side its really easy to sharpen with just a quick scrubbing motion. I just tried this on a S35VN chef's knife and I was back to shaving sharp in 30 seconds with no stroping. If the blades are hard enough there is very little burr to deal with. If you toss in a wooden strop he could have really easy maintenance.

Softer steel will be easier to sharpen with conventional stones but has a tendency to get a wire edge that is hard for inexperienced sharpeners to work with. Diamonds and relatively cheap and require no real maintenance other than washing.
 
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