Are CPM steel forgable?

Paracelsus

Paracelsus

Joined
Nov 6, 1999
Messages
2,639
There is an interesting discussion going on re forging CPM blade steels in the general forum: Blade Steels

My basic question is: Are CPM steels forgable? Is there a difference between stainless (high chromium) CPM steels and non-stainless CPM steels in terms of their suitability for forge shaping?

Knowledgeable input is requested. Thanks.

Paracelsus
 
Yes it can be done but tricky.
I remember there was a maker that was forging T440V but his name escapes me.
They have very tight temp ranges.
It's done all the time in industry.

------------------
Edward Randall Schott

Let the future tell the
truth and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments.
The present is theirs, the future, for which I really worked, is mine".
Nikoli Tesla EdwardRSchott@aol.com

www.angelfire.com/ct/schottknives/
 
YES Para..

3v is very forgable. AND it can be edge quenched (diff tempered)

Also a person I know just recieved a 440 v forged blade .
biggrin.gif



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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!
 
Para --

I have a CPM 10V knife forged by Rick Dunkerley. He also forges 3V. He uses it in powder form to make damascus, and also forges from bar stock. Phil Wilson might have more info on forging stainless CPM steels, or at least on who's doing it. Drop him a line:

seamount@bigplanet.com

--Will
 
You can get anything hot and beat on it. The key is finding the correct temp range for the steel your working with. Some of the air hardening steels, like 440c, 440v, D2, 3V, require a more complicated annealing process than plain ole oil hardening steels (stands to figure).

Cleston Sinyard has forged stainless steels for a long time, probably one of the first. Hes also has fused some titanium in his blades.

Sean McWilliams is probably the most noted maker that forges 440V.

Pete Peterson forges some of his D2 folder blades.


I wish Darrel would elaborate a little more on the 3V.... Was it tricky to anneal after forging??



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"Never hit a man unless you must, but if you must, knock him down" Teddy Roosevelt.

www.lameyknives.com
 
Para,
As has been said, the CPMs are forgable, but the real question remains.......
Does the effort to forge these steels give a justifiable improvement?
On 3V and 10V I will say yes. On the stainless vairities of CMP, I answer NO. I have been doing some "closed door" experimenting with the CPMs, 3V and 10V receive enough benifit from the forging process to make it worth the effort. The other CPMs are about like forging D-2.....you can call it forged,(with all the mystique that goes along with that) but in reality there is nill improvement over a stock removal blade of the same material. That's how I choose to call a steel forgable (as it relates to cutlery). I'm still working on the heat treatment for 3V and 10V, but I suspect that once I discover the correct method, it will make these two steels well worth forging.

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Ed Caffrey "The Montana Bladesmith"
ABS Mastersmith
www.caffreyknives.com
 
Matt
A digital probe in your forge is the trick.
biggrin.gif

As for annealing a ramping controller on your ht treat oven is nice :d. You can noramlize, anneal, then sub anneal, do your work, then heat treat with confidence that the blade was back to where you started when the steel was fresh.

The 3v has a fast quench time. ImHO after several blades, a heavy quench oil may be the cure for this. I feel its like d2 and 440c . They can be oil quenched, air quenched, or salt bathed (mar quenched). Most of the books say that oil quenching will improve corrosion resistance also. If you heat treat 3v just normal out of the box it requires quench plates to speed the ms time.

Send an email matt,george Ill send the info.


Forging is great to save belts on stock removal. D2, and most ss are a bitch to forge. You have to make sure you dont hit the material under forging limits. The cpm steels come with the grain so refined I dont see the purpose except to save belts. Does it cost more (gas coal) to forge them? Belts may be cheaper and the results may be not so good if the process is not right to keep the grain refined . These steels are already great!


The 3v with a diff tempered heat treat seemed to improve performance on my end. That made more difference than forging. The edge was tougher. With the air quench on the back being about 50 rc with no quench plates and the edge being hard from the oil was the big difference. Works great!

420v and 440v can be salt bath heat treated.
The interupted quench (mar quench) makes a BIG differece in performance. D2 also.

The comment about forging powder metal is cool . Just did several billets with that process also.
You can mix your own steel combinations and forge them. Pretty sweet. Real nice for mosaic. You can mix your own carbon, nickle elements ect and forge the steel to your own specs. This stops the block welding weakness in mosaic.

I made a few springs from 3v. It works ok. It was the only 3/6 stock I had in the shop on that day so I just did it after I called Crusible for some information that is not on the spec sheet. I prefer 410 hc for springs though.

The first SIFU DA spring I made was 3v.
Whipps that big blade right out there
biggrin.gif


------------------
Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!


[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 12-01-2000).]
 
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