Are custom knives put through various tests before they are shipped out?

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Oct 20, 2000
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I was imagining the scenario at a knifemaker's workshop where he had just finished a knife for a customer.

He first tests the blade for its sharpness by slicing some tissues/paper. Then, he puts it through some chopping sessions within reason. Perhaps he will swing it at a manila for good effect.

What else does the knifemaker do before he packs it up and ships it out?
 
Usually, they chop 2x4. Then they cut 1" hemp rope. If the knife still shaves hair, then it's ready for the customers. There are also those who stab steel drums to test their knives, or even bend the blade 90 degree angle. Checking fit and finish is usually the last thing to do.
 
The first thing I do after completing heat-treat is to surface grind the ricasso and make sure the "foundation" of my blade is set. Then I mark the blade and rough-finish grind the blade.

At that point, I will sharpen the blade, put a temporary handle on it, and test away.

I like to slice up paper, cardboard, rope, and then move outside for more testing.

I like to cut through dried alder and maple branches that I've taken from the woods out behind the house. They are much tougher, and more like something the knives will actually see in use, vs. 2X4's.

I've been cutting more odd things of late, like cleaving coins into pieces, and slicing pop cans (both side cuts and top-to-bottom).

I also like to take the blade and jab it point first into wood, and then pop the tip out. Most knife designs will come out unharmed, I think this is one of the most brutal tests.

I don't have a Rockwell tester yet, but I take the knives to a local machine shop where they have a very nice Wilson tester and have them tested there.

Then I dull the edge, complete the knife, and re-sharpen it. At final completion, I will usually just slice up newsprint and cardboard before boxing the knife up.

Nick
 
"I also like to take the blade and jab it point first into work, and then pop the tip out."

What's work?Some sort of wood or something?
 
Well said Nick!!!!

The custom maker that does not test each knife before it is shipped will at some piont in time have a bad one slip thru & bite him/her in the back side of the lap. That's just life, Bad Steel, Off a bit(Don't take much)on heat treat, forgot to touch up the edge after final finish, or any number of distractions that make you miss something small but important.
In addition, the one who tests will continue to improve the quality of his knives. Every failure, and there will be some, has a reason, a pitfall to avoid in the future. If the maker improves, he moves forward, if not he moves further back, others that do improve will pass him by.

Even with all the testing, there are times when, no mater how much you have tested a particular knife, someone will say that it will not cut diddley squat.
All I can say is evaluate the source. Some folks have a special axe to grind. Case in point, Big John and the French Chef. John told him well over a year ago in a phone conversation that I overheard, "Hell No, you can't have those knives, I told you that when we first started to talk about this, It was no then and it's no now.". That was only one of many phone calls that got more heated as time passed. After months of delay and many phone calls to lots of other folks. The knives were finally shipped to Jerry Fisk as a neutral party, for further shipment to John. (Jerry wisely didn't open the package but just forwarded it on.)

As to the knives condition when they went to the Chef, I myself cut a free hanging 1" rope with each at least twice, cut a pine 2x4 at least once with each knife and just prior to their packageing for the mail, shaved hair (very fine hair) off my old arm with all three.

Now when they arrived back in my shop (that's where Big John does his work) the knives coindition was less that sterling. Edges turned on allmost the entire length of all three blades, some edge nicks in all three blades, gouges running from edge to spine on the Hog Body Bowie (visable in the Knife World pictures) that on close inspection had grit imbedded in the steel. Those gouges looked much like the ones I placed in a bowie years ago when I mistakenly tested it on a 2x6 that had been used as a concrete screed board and then washed clean(I thought). Fine sand sure raises hell with a blade.
Given the animosity between Big John and the Chef over who owned the knives, I'm surprised that the Knife World article was not more derogatory.

My advice to any young maker is if you submit any knives for testing, have them tested in your presence. If that is not possable, then test them yourself in front of several witnesses that can verify the results, and then and only then submit them for the test.

I only wish I had been smart enough then to steer John clear of that mess. I may have opend some old wounds, but I don't want anyone else to get tangled up in a mess like Big John did.



By the way, we just started (in October) on our second 600 ft roll of inch rope since Oct 1999. I only rope test blades with at least a 4 1/2 inch blade, Big John rope tests them down to around 3+ inches. I can safely say that I have not made more than twenty fixed blades in the last four years, so you know who cuts up the rope(and two dozen 2x4s each month). There is about 5 acres of brush thickets and hard woods behind the shop that also get regular attention from the big guy.

:)
 
I can attest to John testing his knives as rigourously as anyone I have seen. All the trees around his shop are pruned at least a few inches above his head.

I like to do various tests throughout the process of making the knife. I actually do most of the cutting tests with the actual handle the knive will have, just before the blade and handle get finished. After heat treating I always test the blades ont he hardness tester. I have made enough knives fromt he same steels to prety well know how the blade will hold up after I know the hardness of the blade. After the blade is rough ground, I will throw it onto the floor point first. This tests the toughness and more importantly the geometry of the tip to endure being droped or stabbed into tough material. This is usually on larger knives. I do grind some small knives thin enough to be damaged by this. One test I recently started doing is choping into a peice of antler to test the edge toughness. I do this after I set the convex edge to ensure just the right balance of thin geometry with enough material to make it stand up to hard materials. I cut 2x4s and various other materials, sometimes even sheet metal.

A maker who tests his work is truly taking the time to make sure his customers are getting the "real deal".
 
I know this isnt in the same vein as the other's who responded: All knives out of my shop have to be sharp, that's a given. The area that receives the most attention is the lockup. I put the knife through a series of tests to ensure that lockup is sure. I use the spine whack test to check for "shock", I use a direct pressure and torqued presure to ensure against failure ( this is done with blade in vise, and me trying to close the knife ). I also have a test to ensure the fail safe works properly. These tests are performed and I let the knife "rest" for 1-2 weeks usually, then they are dissasembled, finish is touched up on any parts that need it, lock travel is measured ( I measure this before testing as well with an indicator ), Ti is andoized etc, then the knife is reassembled, marked and sharpened. I keep detailed records of this on a form I made, which has DOB, number and other pertainant data to the knife. I probably overkill the process, but I think the customer deserves the attention to details ( not just F&F details ), and it helps me sleep at night knowing that I've done all I can do for each knife. Every knife has to pass each test, each time. If a knife doesnt pass, it either finds its way to the 12 ton press or a big X in the bolster and into my EDC ( Depending on how pissed I am at time of failure ;) ). - Charles
 
what about the other knifemakers out there? it seems that only the bowie/choppers/forged blade knifemakers test their blades this way....what about those who make tacs, folders, slicers etc etc. do you test each and every blade before sending it out to the customer?
 
It seems most knife tests are done on a blade by most makers I know that test their knives, prior to the final finishing of the blade. Mainly because the wood chopping, rope cutting, can cutting, etc...puts score marks on a nicely finished blade. So the tests are done with a rougher finish on the blade, then the blade is finished to the final grit, boxed up and shipped. Many times the edge geometry has been slightly altered at this point of final finish, than from when it was actually tested in the unfinished stage. So the knife will perform differently in varying types of cuts.

I'll mention that I firmly believe in testing all knives before sending them out. I chop hickory,bamboo,cut rope, aluminum cans etc...but one of the oldest tests that has been around for many years is the the 1/4" brass rod test. It's been forgotten by many and never heard of by lots of new makers. I use this on all my knives when they are completely finished. It's kinda hard to chop a 2x4 with a 3" folder blade so the rod test is a very good test for proper edge geometry and toughness of the blade.

I simply roll a 1/4" brass rod against the side of the entire edge while observing under a 45 power engraving microscope(an eye loop works just as well)The rod is applying side pressure to the edge. If the edge geometry is too thick you will not see any deflection of the edge. If the edge geometry is ideal, you will see edge deflection. Now if the edge is too soft the edge will deflect but will not return to center. If the hardness of the edge is ideal, it will flex and return back to center. If the edge is too hard it will flex and chip out while rolling the brass rod along the side of the edge.

These are the guidelines I use for the 1/4" brass rod test. It has definitely enhanced the performance of my knives and I would recommend others to try it sometime. You may find out things about your edge you didn't know to be so.
 
Ron,

Is it necessary to grind away the steel that was flexed after the rod test, even if it passes the test and returns to shape?

-Jose
 
Good point Ron-

I also do the brass-rod test on all my knives. I like to do the test before initial testing, and after final completion.

The edge will be unharmed if the heat-treat and geometry are right on, it will roll right back to center as it was.

The wood I use for the test on the point is usually kiln dried lumber, either pine or fir 2x4's.

I have also incorporated a batoning test in the last several months. This involves taking a kiln dried oak 2x2 and putting it in a vise horizontally. I will take small knives and pound them through the oak with a wood mallet. You have to cut out wedges, just as you would chop with a big knife or hatchet...but this is a very brutal test on a small, thin-edged knife. If it will stand up to this, it should do everything and more a buyer will use it for.

Nick
 
Interesting, only Mr. Marlowe has commented on testing the lock strength...

Dude, I never knew you did all that.

Think it's time to get another one. You still doing them with 0.083" thick liners as an option?

Hm.

-jon
 
Hi Jon, yep my knives have to go through quite a bit before they leave; kinda like dogs from obidience school, I want to make sure they dont bite anyone ;). Yep still making a few with .083 liners, but not very often. Gimme a hollar sometime - Charles

BTW, I can send out the papers for anyone who wants them with their knife :)
 
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