Are my knife right null and void the moment step into a business

[Ahk]

For example:
I live in western New York, its a semi rural semi urban area. Now half the people that walk around have a folder in their pockets. So its a common site.
I work at walmart in the electronics dept. and they supply a cheap ass box cutter that isnt work the dirt on my boot. So i usaully carry a Schrade sch 301 tanto.
i have worked there for a good three years now and i have always had a knife on me.I am a kind and gentle soul so there is not threat present, but we just recently hired a new asset protection manager at my job.
he saw me and pulled me aside and told me to get ride of the knife you are not allowed to have it. Being an absolute knife enthusiast and informed him that the second amendment protects( or should protect) my knife rights not just my gun rights. He then said you cannot have it at work get rid of it or be terminated. Now blades are deeply seated in our history, and just becuase we live in a modern society and dont need a knife all the time because it is necessary doesnt mean that i dont like a good chuck of steel on my belt. So my question is if i continue to wear it and disobey policy is there nothing i can do. i mean i dont want to lose my job but, but i have Pro KNIFE RIGHTS blood flowing strong in my veins.
I appologise about grammer and sloppyness. im in a rush and irritated

 

[jfalkos]

I can see two separate issues here...
1) Knives and the second amendment
Now the second amendment is a great thing. It was created at a time when everyone had a gun, both for defense against animals and intruders, and for the possibility of taking control of the government. In today's US, guns still serve the purpose of defense (I won't get into sporting involving guns because the government couldn't care less about that). However, to be brutally honest, even if all of Fox's viewers went up in arms, there is no way that they could take down the government.
My point here is that knives cannot serve that purpose of the second amendment. Try taking a knife against a soldier armed with a M4 and tell me how that goes for you.
Similarly, knives fail on the premise of self defense. There is almost no circumstance where a knife should be used as a weapon. Sure certain knives cut flesh well, but guns are specifically designed to kill. I will add the argument that most of us on here LOVE our knife rights. We like being able to carry our knives and use them as tools/fondling pieces. If people start going around stabbing each other, chances are we'll start seeing a lot more regulation and LESS freedom. Of course we all love how "cool" our newest tactical blade is, but in this day and age, defense must be conducted using one tool only, a firearm.
2) The second issue here is the workplace. You work in an environment that requires a knife, and this is specifically why you carry one. You are not carrying it for defense, you are not carrying it for the "coolness factor", you are carrying it to break down boxes. You may not be satisfied with the quality of your issued box cutter, and I will make suggestions on that topic, but frankly you are not in the place to argue with your corporation. They've issued you an item that they knew would not scare customers and couldn't easily cause any injury. Since your knife is being used ONLY as a tool, you need to think of it ONLY as a tool.

My suggestion to you would be to talk again with your manager, but to focus on a different argument. Instead of demanding that he allow you to break company policy, and instead of demanding that he believe that any knife is acceptable in society, you should instead focus on your ACTUAL issue. Tell him that a box cutter doesn't cut well, and in order to maximize your time, you've always used a sharp, useful knife that could quickly make all the cuts you need. If he is not willing to back down, offer some suggestions for quality box cutters. Milwaukee's newest models get some GREAT feedback, and Gerber's EAB is also a wonderful option.

Best of luck to you. I do not mean to rip on you, but rather to offer suggestions and rationale to all of those who find themselves stuck in this awful situation!!
Now to convince the school district that I should be able to carry a neck knife...

 

[Ahk]

I can see two separate issues here...
1) Knives and the second amendment
Now the second amendment is a great thing. It was created at a time when everyone had a gun, both for defense against animals and intruders, and for the possibility of taking control of the government. In today's US, guns still serve the purpose of defense (I won't get into sporting involving guns because the government couldn't care less about that). However, to be brutally honest, even if all of Fox's viewers went up in arms, there is no way that they could take down the government.
My point here is that knives cannot serve that purpose of the second amendment. Try taking a knife against a soldier armed with a M4 and tell me how that goes for you.
Similarly, knives fail on the premise of self defense. There is almost no circumstance where a knife should be used as a weapon. Sure certain knives cut flesh well, but guns are specifically designed to kill. I will add the argument that most of us on here LOVE our knife rights. We like being able to carry our knives and use them as tools/fondling pieces. If people start going around stabbing each other, chances are we'll start seeing a lot more regulation and LESS freedom. Of course we all love how "cool" our newest tactical blade is, but in this day and age, defense must be conducted using one tool only, a firearm.
2) The second issue here is the workplace. You work in an environment that requires a knife, and this is specifically why you carry one. You are not carrying it for defense, you are not carrying it for the "coolness factor", you are carrying it to break down boxes. You may not be satisfied with the quality of your issued box cutter, and I will make suggestions on that topic, but frankly you are not in the place to argue with your corporation. They've issued you an item that they knew would not scare customers and couldn't easily cause any injury. Since your knife is being used ONLY as a tool, you need to think of it ONLY as a tool.

My suggestion to you would be to talk again with your manager, but to focus on a different argument. Instead of demanding that he allow you to break company policy, and instead of demanding that he believe that any knife is acceptable in society, you should instead focus on your ACTUAL issue. Tell him that a box cutter doesn't cut well, and in order to maximize your time, you've always used a sharp, useful knife that could quickly make all the cuts you need. If he is not willing to back down, offer some suggestions for quality box cutters. Milwaukee's newest models get some GREAT feedback, and Gerber's EAB is also a wonderful option.

Best of luck to you. I do not mean to rip on you, but rather to offer suggestions and rationale to all of those who find themselves stuck in this awful situation!!
Now to convince the school district that I should be able to carry a neck knife...

Since im not raging anymore, this makes absolute sense. Now I feel like another ignorant idealist. The way you broke it down is absolutely wonderful. Thank you for you time : )

 

[Thomas Linton]

The Constitution guarantees certain rights against governments, not employers or private owners of property. Period.

The "right to bear arms" applies to all "arms." It was acknowledged in the Constitution at a time when many, but not all, persons had firearms and at a time edged and pointed weapons were a significant part of "arms."

[E]very citizen, so enrolled and notified ..shall within six months thereafter, provide himself..." with a musket, bayonet and belt, two spare flints, a cartridge box with 24 bullets, and a knapsack.

[emphasis added] Second Militia Act of 1792. What that means in 2014 is open to question. What it meant in 1792 is very clear.

 

[killgar]

As long as they are not imposing rules that discriminate against peoples race, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation. And as long as they are not ordering employees to commit crimes under local, state, or federal law, your employer can impose ANY rule they wish. And if you break those rules, they can legally fire you. And good luck collecting unemployment. Also, being fired for violating workplace rules can haunt you and might prevent you from being hired elsewhere if your future prospective employers should choose to inquire about why you were fired. Being fired for violating a company "weapon policy" is not something you want to have happen.

An employer is under no legal obligation to recognize or indulge your Constitutional rights.

You know better than I what your managers attitude is. But it sounds to me like he is adamantly against you carrying your own knife. And if it is COMPANY POLICY that he is enforcing, then he might not have any power, or will, to tell you that it's ok for you to violate COMPANY POLICY. In fact, he might cause all kinds of trouble for you just for asking him to do so. I've never worked for Walmart, but from what I hear they aren't the friendliest company to work for. Don't expect corporate management to be understanding or reasonable towards your situation. And don't expect them to take your word over a managers if he decides to report you or screw you over.

You might want to consider if it's worth the risk of losing you job just to push the matter and carry your own knife. My guess is that there are many people waiting in line for your job and you could easily be replaced. Maybe you should just try to make the best of the tools they give you, be thankful you have a job, and keep cashing your paychecks. Enjoy your knife rights on your own time.

Of course it wouldn't hurt to get yourself a copy of Walmarts workplace/employee rules and see for yourself what it says regarding knives.

 

[jfalkos]

Since im not raging anymore, this makes absolute sense. Now I feel like another ignorant idealist. The way you broke it down is absolutely wonderful. Thank you for you time : )

No problem man! Hey...I don't like it either, but the sheeple just don't seem to understand us On a happier note, what do you think of Schrade? Are they worth the money?

 

[jfalkos]

In fact, he might cause all kinds of trouble for you just for asking him to do so.

Very true, but another issue at hand is that he might cause all sorts of trouble for himself if he allows you to break the rules. I can just see the other employees..."Ahk got to carry his knife to work, boss! Why can't I carry my Ka-bar?" As much as it sucks, bosses hate making exceptions because that opens them up to all sorts of requests from other employees.

 

[Ahk]

No problem man! Hey...I don't like it either, but the sheeple just don't seem to understand us On a happier note, what do you think of Schrade? Are they worth the money?

They are alright, Cheap but you get a good value, i have 3 models of their hollow handled knives plus the tanto style folder. After using them all I have no bad feedback. good quality for the price

 

[jfalkos]

They are alright, Cheap but you get a good value, i have 3 models of their hollow handled knives plus the tanto style folder. After using them all I have no bad feedback. good quality for the price

Preparedmind101 seems to love them so I think I'll have to check them out

 

[Drew Riley]

Unfortunately, your employer has the "right of way" when it comes to what you can, or cannot have on your person while in the workplace. In fact, many workplaces can regulate what you are even allowed to carry or have in your automobile. That's simply the name of the game when it comes to having an employer.

My suggestion, if you want to keep your job, is to simply invest in a higher quality box cutter (the hardware department is just a skip and a jump away), and ask that your employer provide you with some replacement blades as needed to fulfill your duties.

 

[smokinbasser]

Be aware that those "knife rights" are null and void if you enter a government facility. Veterans Administration buildings, post offices, police departments are in that category.

 

[Clang!]

The long and short of it is "my business, my rules" with the usual exceptions about discrimination. Your job requires a box cutter and they supplied you with one. The fact that it is a POS isn't really a legal argument unless it is so poorly constructed that it's dangerous to use under normal conditions.

My advice, with the usual IANAL caveat, is to leave your personal knife in the car and find out about buying your own blades for the box cutter. You can use the argument that the existing blade is so dull that it is tearing and skipping when it should be cutting. This risks damaging the product and you because of the excessive amount of force needed to cut with it. Since they are not supplying sharp replacement blades, you need to purchase your own. You can get by with a fairly cheap box cutter handle provided you have a good blade in it.

As an example: I had worked in a refridgerated warehouse, and on a typical day, would have to cut open 50-100 boxes. My employer provided box cutters with well used (dull) blades. It was an unwritten rule that if you wanted a decent blade, then you would have to buy your own. Everbody did.

 

[Indiana Joe]

So many good pieces of wisdom on this thread, Ahk.

I'm an area manager for a company that has a no-weapons policy. I carry a folder with me every time I'm at work -- usually a Journeyman or Super Commander or Military -- but only because my boss is a knife-enthusiast too. He carries a blade with him so I am permitted to do so.

My point is that if my boss would not allow us to carry our own blades, I (we) would be relegated to carrying a company-issued POS box cutter. Please don't jeopardize your job over a knife-carry issue, because you won't win that battle.

Believe me, just like you -- I'd rather carry my own blade that works correctly. But your job and reputation are more important than what you'd like to do regarding this issue.

 

[leghog]

Be aware that those "knife rights" are null and void if you enter a government facility. Veterans Administration buildings, post offices, police departments are in that category.

That is much too broad of a statement. Knives are allowed in post offices and in police station of many jurisdictions. Heck in my state you can even carry your handgun into a police station. Let's at least try to be accurate.

 

[Judicata]

I can see two separate issues here...
1) Knives and the second amendment
Now the second amendment is a great thing. It was created at a time when everyone had a gun, both for defense against animals and intruders, and for the possibility of taking control of the government. In today's US, guns still serve the purpose of defense (I won't get into sporting involving guns because the government couldn't care less about that). However, to be brutally honest, even if all of Fox's viewers went up in arms, there is no way that they could take down the government.
My point here is that knives cannot serve that purpose of the second amendment.

The primary reason for the second amendment was incorporated into the bill of rights is to resist tyranny/usurpatious government. To a much lesser extent the reason was self-defense.

In WWII if all of the Nazi's victims had been armed would it have been easier or harder to kill them? I'm guessing harder...but I wouldn't suggest they would take down the Nazi regime, only that they would make things harder for them.

Don't believe me re-read the writings of the founders such as the federalist papers. See what they said.

 

[jimh0220]

As long as they are not imposing rules that discriminate against peoples race, or religion, or gender, or sexual orientation. And as long as they are not ordering employees to commit crimes under local, state, or federal law, your employer can impose ANY rule they wish. And if you break those rules, they can legally fire you. And good luck collecting unemployment. Also, being fired for violating workplace rules can haunt you and might prevent you from being hired elsewhere if your future prospective employers should choose to inquire about why you were fired. Being fired for violating a company "weapon policy" is not something you want to have happen.

An employer is under no legal obligation to recognize or indulge your Constitutional rights.

You know better than I what your managers attitude is. But it sounds to me like he is adamantly against you carrying your own knife. And if it is COMPANY POLICY that he is enforcing, then he might not have any power, or will, to tell you that it's ok for you to violate COMPANY POLICY. In fact, he might cause all kinds of trouble for you just for asking him to do so. I've never worked for Walmart, but from what I hear they aren't the friendliest company to work for. Don't expect corporate management to be understanding or reasonable towards your situation. And don't expect them to take your word over a managers if he decides to report you or screw you over.

You might want to consider if it's worth the risk of losing you job just to push the matter and carry your own knife. My guess is that there are many people waiting in line for your job and you could easily be replaced. Maybe you should just try to make the best of the tools they give you, be thankful you have a job, and keep cashing your paychecks. Enjoy your knife rights on your own time.

Of course it wouldn't hurt to get yourself a copy of Walmarts workplace/employee rules and see for yourself what it says regarding knives.

Extremely well put and absolutely the truth. Leave the knife at home or locked in your car. Even a crappy box cutter will flatten a box. Get over your chip on your shoulder. Just do your job with what they tell you to.

Using a knife wherever you please is not a God given right.