Are my thoughts on damascus correct?

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Muaddib1116

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I did some research into CRK damascus, and I know that they buy the blade stock from Devin Thomas, and I think I read that they used to offer stainless and carbon damascus from him, but now just stainless? Either way, from what I read, my impression is that the performance of a damascus blade varies depending on what steels were used creating it, and that generally while they offer good performance they are not as good as S35VN and are obviously valued for their aesthetics. Is that about right?
 
Almost, except the part about not as "good" as S35VN. The performance varies depending on the steels used and the heat treat regime. One reason for using steels of similar characteristics and HT regimes is so you get a damascus having, for example, 60 hrc in the bright steels and the dark steels. If (in your opinion) RWL34 is as good as or better than S35VN, then there is no reason why Damasteel (mix of RWL34 and PMC27) would not also be as good as (or better than) S35VN.
The comparison of one steel against another is a "value judgement" if you decide one is better than another. Other people might look at the same comparison of characteristics and decide the other way. Your priority might be corrosion resistance at 60hrc, someone else's might be ease of sharpening, or price.
I'd rather have a well HT'd Damasteel blade than a poorly HT'd S35VN. Ultimately the biggest variable isn't what the blade is made of, but rather the quality of the HT.
Many may look down their noses at 440C, but with a good HT, it's actually pretty hard to beat even compared to many "super steels". Everything is a compromise, hardness vs toughness, edge holding vs ease of sharpening etc. It's how these compromises balance out for the tasks the knife will be asked to perform which will determine how happy you are with your choice.
 
Thanks for the reply. Perhaps my "not as good as S35VN" phrasing was not exactly what I meant. I understand that performance is subjective and can be categorized differently, and also that an alloy's performance characteristics are greatly dependent on the quality of the HT. I'm thinking more of the performance potential, assuming an optimal HT.

Damascus construction doesn't create a homogeneous material, right? So, if you take a damascus blade comprised of alloy X and alloy Y (which have similar HT results), then at any given location in the blade you have either alloy X OR alloy Y at whatever HT they had undergone. So the performance characteristics of the blade as a whole wouldn't exceed those of X or Y (with the same HT) by themselves. Is that totally off base?

I could imagine that if you used two fairly different alloys (one being tougher and the other having a higher hardness) then the performance of the blade in regards to toughness as a whole would exceed the toughness of a blade made just from the harder alloy. But I would imagine that your edge holding performance would be strange, since certain parts of the edge would be harder than others. But from what you said, this doesn't seem to be the preferred method/result.

So, if we can assume that S35VN is overall a higher performance steel than VG10, then a damascus blade made with two alloys, that each have similar performance to VG10, as a whole will have similar performance to VG10? And that it could be rated against a well made S35VN blade similarly to how a well made VG10 blade would be?
 
To be a little shorter;-)
Ive used both S30v, S35Vn and DT spirograph damascus on my small sebbies for over a year now.
In my experience there is no difference to be discovered in using it!
I understand your worrie about the edge consisting of 2 different metal, both with there own characteristics, but i have found any disadvantage whatsoever.....

My small Damascus is my precious, just because of the look and feel of the blade!
My advice: get one and use the heck out of it...... It will live up to your expectation in any way shape or form!!

Good luck&have fun

Niels
 
This is just my opinion, but if you want a more in depth answer I'd suggest posting the question where the metal heads hang out, whether that be Maintenance (that's where I'd do it) or in the makers sub forums. There are more than a few hobby (and above) level metallurgists around that you should be able to find a comprehensive and thoughtful explanation of whether your thinking is right or not.

My personal feeling is that you are probably over-simplifying the concept. On one level your train of thought seems logical (and it may be, but I don't think so), but weird things happen when you "play" with steel in any capacity. If you analyze one billet of steel, as you suggest, heat treated, then take that steel and fold it into another steel so that you end up with paper thin layers literally welded to the other steel and apply the same HT I think you'd be looking at two totally different animals. That's assuming you could even segregate one of the folded steels to analyze.

In any case, my opinion and thoughts are no more valid than anyone else's. It's just what I *think*. But if you want to *know*, ask the pros. ;)
 
The newer supersteels are awesome, but there's just something about SS Damascus that for me seems better. I've had several CRKs with DT's SS Damascus and it not only hold a fantastic edge and looks good, but sharpens relatively easy. The pattern welded steel is obviously stronger than anything else. The combination of AEB-L/304 SS in the matrix does not seem to effect cutting ability I find.
 
My EDC is a Ladder LG seb, I've carried 30's 35's and think they are close. No problems sharpening any of them, they seem to hold a comparable edge, and I have enjoyed them all. There is something about Damascus that really draws a crowd when the blade comes out! Bart
 
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