-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Are Strider knives the toughest in the world?
- Thread starter mikemck
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 698
Everybody from Cold Steel to Busse can lay claim to the same thing.
Cold steel is out of the running, as far as I'm concerned.
I managed to break several of the ginsurrations they use while trying to cut some PVC. Now, the plain edge Voyagers do seem to be pretty tough, but I'll be the first to say that I have not really used them that hard.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about how tough the makers claim the knives are, I'm wanting opinions from people who have actually used/abused some knives.
I managed to break several of the ginsurrations they use while trying to cut some PVC. Now, the plain edge Voyagers do seem to be pretty tough, but I'll be the first to say that I have not really used them that hard.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about how tough the makers claim the knives are, I'm wanting opinions from people who have actually used/abused some knives.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 45,054
I use both carbon and stainless steel blades, but I'd be surprised if a stainless blade could lay claim to being toughest and still work well as a knife.
Be interesting to see comments and information to support claims pro and con.
Be interesting to see comments and information to support claims pro and con.
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2000
- Messages
- 1,361
Well.. Mick and Duane like to demonstrate the toughness of their blades at shows by chopping through steel table legs. Over at the Strider Forum, I've seen stories ranging from "used mine to chip out some concrete", to "used mine as a piton, since I was out".
That says "tough" to me.
That says "tough" to me.
Bronco
Moderator
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2000
- Messages
- 7,580
No doubt the human species has a prediliction for searching out the _ _ _ _ _est of just about everything (the fastest, tallest, strongest, toughest, etc., etc.). And I suppose there's no reason why it should be otherwise where knives are concerned. At the risk of coming off as an all too anal version of Mr. Wizard, however, it bears repeating that toughness is but one attribute that goes into creating a good blade. In other words, you can fashion a blade that favors toughness over all other factors, and in the end it will certainly be tough. But in most real world scenarios, it will likely make for a poor knife.
Now, it's probably safe to assume that by using the phrase "overall toughness" you are really interested in more than just toughness per se, but I make this point only as a means of demonstrating why it's impossible to ever say which knife is 'best'. There are several different aspects of 'performance' in a knife which necessarily become more or less important based on the intended uses of the blade.
Certainly the uses for which Strider blades are created demand high levels of toughness, but not so much toughness that strength can be ignored. Admittedly, until recently, toughness was not really considered to be a strong point of ATS-34. But I think it's fair to say that this view was largely borne out of the experiences of folks who were using primarily mass produced factory blades which were heat treated in large furnaces and in large quantities. I would submit that the heat treating prowess of Paul Bos alone has done much to imbue Strider blades with a level of performance that, on the surface, doesn't really seem compatible with our notions of ATS-34. And more and more these days we see respected makers like Jerry Hossom and others, building large, hard use knives with ATS-34/154CM blades with excellent results. Ross Aki makes machetes out of the stuff. Point being, I wouldn't necessarily view the use of a stainless steel as an impediment to building a hard use knife today.
The standard blade grind of Strider knives is another factor that contributes to extreme strength, durability and ability to handle abuse. A small amount of cutting efficiency is likely sacrificed by this grind when compared to say a full flat ground blade, but again, when considering the intended uses of Strider Blades, this effect is probably insignificant.
Thus the bottom line would appear to be, are your intended uses for this blade similar to the uses for which the blade is designed? If the answer is yes, then it is almost assured that you will be pleased with the performance of Strider blades. As you say, complaints from Strider customers appear to be few and far between.
Now, it's probably safe to assume that by using the phrase "overall toughness" you are really interested in more than just toughness per se, but I make this point only as a means of demonstrating why it's impossible to ever say which knife is 'best'. There are several different aspects of 'performance' in a knife which necessarily become more or less important based on the intended uses of the blade.
Certainly the uses for which Strider blades are created demand high levels of toughness, but not so much toughness that strength can be ignored. Admittedly, until recently, toughness was not really considered to be a strong point of ATS-34. But I think it's fair to say that this view was largely borne out of the experiences of folks who were using primarily mass produced factory blades which were heat treated in large furnaces and in large quantities. I would submit that the heat treating prowess of Paul Bos alone has done much to imbue Strider blades with a level of performance that, on the surface, doesn't really seem compatible with our notions of ATS-34. And more and more these days we see respected makers like Jerry Hossom and others, building large, hard use knives with ATS-34/154CM blades with excellent results. Ross Aki makes machetes out of the stuff. Point being, I wouldn't necessarily view the use of a stainless steel as an impediment to building a hard use knife today.
The standard blade grind of Strider knives is another factor that contributes to extreme strength, durability and ability to handle abuse. A small amount of cutting efficiency is likely sacrificed by this grind when compared to say a full flat ground blade, but again, when considering the intended uses of Strider Blades, this effect is probably insignificant.
Thus the bottom line would appear to be, are your intended uses for this blade similar to the uses for which the blade is designed? If the answer is yes, then it is almost assured that you will be pleased with the performance of Strider blades. As you say, complaints from Strider customers appear to be few and far between.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 3,021
Busse Combat. Period.
Proof?
http://www.bussecombat.com/videos.html
These videos are of the now-discontinued (though still available) Basics, which are made of Modified INFI. INFI is an even greater steel, and it's used in the Combat Grade knives.
Proof?
http://www.bussecombat.com/videos.html
These videos are of the now-discontinued (though still available) Basics, which are made of Modified INFI. INFI is an even greater steel, and it's used in the Combat Grade knives.
Oh lordy, those do appear to be some very tough knives indeed! All this time and I never even really looked at Busse knives. Most of the reason for that is because it is only lately that I have become interested in fixed blades.
I'm definitely going to have to get a Busse Basic or Badger Attack so I can see for myself just how good these knives really are.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2000
- Messages
- 598
Strider has the custom AR and GB folders which are like fixed blades but Busse has no folders.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Bugs3x :
They will not even come close to doing it once. When I snapped the WB I don't think it went much past 25 +/- 5 degrees. I did not feel much give before it snapped. While steel choice is important, geometry is very critical, you can't just generalize based on steel. In regards to the WB (and most Strider blades, PAB is the same for example), there is little or no taper to the blade and sharp grind transitions, this is pretty much exactly the opposite of what you want to allow a high degree of flex.
Anyway in regards to the steel, no ATS-34 is not flexible (in geometries common for heavy work blades). This has been described on the forums a few times. Drew wilson broke a couple of his ATS-34 blades and reported the results on the forums a couple of years ago. They were a bit softer than most (59 RC), but still snapped at a low flex, ~25 degrees. Lynn Griffith also did similar with one of his ATS-34 bowies.
By the way, most mastersmith blades don't return to true after they hit 90 degrees, however they can take a very large flex and return due to the taper, smooth grind transitions, differential temper and inherent properties of the steel. Fully hardened CPM-3V can do similar according to some tests that Ed Schott performed. Busse Combats INFI can also take a large bend.
Stainless steels are not in the same class as carbon (1084) , spring (5160) and shock steels (S7) in regards to ductility and impact toughness, no matter who does the heat treat. However high carbon, high alloy stainless steels are inherently very strong and compression resistant.
On a blade crafted from such, the high hardness and strength will make the edge very durable in light to medium work as it will resist compression and deformation to a much greater extent than a softer lower alloy steel (5160 at 58-58 RC say). However once the level of impacts starts to rise, the durability of the stainless blade will take a rapid dive as it starts to fracture whereas the lower alloy steel will just continue to deform/indent.
In regards to strength, Striders blades are among the top (of a given size knife), due to the shallow sabre grinds and very hard, high carbon, high alloy stainless steel. They are also one of the few production companies with a full warrenty on their blades, so you really are at no risk in trying one out.
-Cliff
They will not even come close to doing it once. When I snapped the WB I don't think it went much past 25 +/- 5 degrees. I did not feel much give before it snapped. While steel choice is important, geometry is very critical, you can't just generalize based on steel. In regards to the WB (and most Strider blades, PAB is the same for example), there is little or no taper to the blade and sharp grind transitions, this is pretty much exactly the opposite of what you want to allow a high degree of flex.
Anyway in regards to the steel, no ATS-34 is not flexible (in geometries common for heavy work blades). This has been described on the forums a few times. Drew wilson broke a couple of his ATS-34 blades and reported the results on the forums a couple of years ago. They were a bit softer than most (59 RC), but still snapped at a low flex, ~25 degrees. Lynn Griffith also did similar with one of his ATS-34 bowies.
By the way, most mastersmith blades don't return to true after they hit 90 degrees, however they can take a very large flex and return due to the taper, smooth grind transitions, differential temper and inherent properties of the steel. Fully hardened CPM-3V can do similar according to some tests that Ed Schott performed. Busse Combats INFI can also take a large bend.
Stainless steels are not in the same class as carbon (1084) , spring (5160) and shock steels (S7) in regards to ductility and impact toughness, no matter who does the heat treat. However high carbon, high alloy stainless steels are inherently very strong and compression resistant.
On a blade crafted from such, the high hardness and strength will make the edge very durable in light to medium work as it will resist compression and deformation to a much greater extent than a softer lower alloy steel (5160 at 58-58 RC say). However once the level of impacts starts to rise, the durability of the stainless blade will take a rapid dive as it starts to fracture whereas the lower alloy steel will just continue to deform/indent.
In regards to strength, Striders blades are among the top (of a given size knife), due to the shallow sabre grinds and very hard, high carbon, high alloy stainless steel. They are also one of the few production companies with a full warrenty on their blades, so you really are at no risk in trying one out.
-Cliff