Are there any down sides to laminated / composite blades?

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hazy

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Mar 1, 2013
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I'm curious how laminated steels and composite steel blades hold up compared to blades made from a single piece of steel. Are the blades structurally stronger, weaker, or basically the same as a single piece blade? Forgive me if this seems like a dumb question but googling didn't provide me a good enough answer
 
I'd say the benefits are mostly athestics / stain resistance at this point. Modern steels and heat treating procedures will produce the tensile strength (toughness?) that would be found in traditional laminates. The benfits are mostly athestics. Otherwise they are basically the same as regular blades. You might find that some knives clad in soft stainless (think 420J1) will bend easily, though. My super blue endura can be bent with my fingers then bent back. The composite blades from KAI don't have any benefit, again, above aesthetics, they're just as strong. :)
 
Another theory is that a composite blade allows the maker to use a very expensive steel for the edge, and a cheaper steel for the rest of the knife to reduce the cost.
 
I don't think there's any advantage other than aesthetics anymore. There are better blade steels now than there ever were. The legendary blades of the samurai or warriors of different cultures have been completely surpassed by modern steels in every way.
 
I'm actually a little hesitant to pay up for composite blades because I'm not convinced that the manufactures can get the best heat treatment for each alloy when they're grazed/welded together. Not wanted to dig up skeletons, but wasn't the S110V in the Zero Tolerance 0560cbcf rumored to not have optimal heat treat?
 
Laminated blades where there's a hard core and soft sides are tougher than a blade made entirely of hard steel. Otherwise it's there for looks.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Laminated blades where there's a hard core and soft sides are tougher than a blade made entirely of hard steel. Otherwise it's there for looks.
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Yes technically this is still true despite any advances in metallurgy. Another downside is the increased cost in some instances. But then I recall that the manufacturer of some recent Spyderco composites preferred to us composite material vs. homogenous material.

OTOH there is still some measure of "exotic" to a composite blade.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Laminated blades where there's a hard core and soft sides are tougher than a blade made entirely of hard steel. Otherwise it's there for looks.
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Interesting, this is exactly the type of thing I was wondering. So on a Fallkniven for example, you are getting a superior blade than if it were a solid piece of VG-10 only (Fallkniven uses a laminate with a VG10 core)?

Also can anyone tell me how a laminated steel is created? Are the pieces just pressed together or are they welded?
 
hazy said:
Interesting, this is exactly the type of thing I was wondering. So on a Fallkniven for example, you are getting a superior blade than if it were a solid piece of VG-10 only (Fallkniven uses a laminate with a VG10 core)?
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Could be but it depends on the properties of the core material vs. the properties of the outer layers. Generally you want the outer layers to be less brittle so they don't start a fracture when you try to bend the blade. I didn't think VG10 was all that brittle but Fallkniven has sufficient reputation that they probably didn't make it without a good reason.
 
jprime84 said:
Another theory is that a composite blade allows the maker to use a very expensive steel for the edge, and a cheaper steel for the rest of the knife to reduce the cost.
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I don't think that's quite right because the cost of the brazing the steels together and the chances of it not being perfect takes away a lot of the cost savings.

I think what it allows you to do is stretch out the use of a really rare steel. If a particular steel is really really hard to come by you might be able to get 3-4 cutting edges out of a piece of steel that would normally be enough for one solid blade.
 
The only knife I've ever owned with a laminated blade is the Spyderco Caly 3 CF/ZDP-189. I only use it for office work, but it has performed fine. I've seen no adverse effects to it being two pieces of steel.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
However good Murray Carter happens to be at sharpening, I'm afraid that's nonsense. :)
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Murray Carter polishes the edge and primary grind during sharpening, so having the softer steel on the outside would actually make sharpening easier. His method of sharpening. I agree with you otherwise. :)
 
manowar669 said:
I don't think there's any advantage other than aesthetics anymore. There are better blade steels now than there ever were. The legendary blades of the samurai or warriors of different cultures have been completely surpassed by modern steels in every way.
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I'm not so sure of that. Take an excellent example(not some random maker) of a real samurai sword from the period, they have have a hard time figuring out how it was made and it's metallurgy to this day, that's how complex they were.
 
Some composite blades, like the Kershaw JunkYardDog 2.2, have layers that are copper-brazed. The JYD's D2 cutting edge is excellent. The softer outer layer helps to support the blade to prevent lateral flex, as has been stated above. However, the brazing process also suggests that it will not support an optimum high-temperature heat treat.
I have a JYD II and really enjoy it for rough outdoor yard-work. If there is a weak point to this knife, I haven't found it.
 
9blades said:
Murray Carter polishes the edge and primary grind during sharpening, so having the softer steel on the outside would actually make sharpening easier. His method of sharpening. I agree with you otherwise. :)
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I would consider that beveling rather than sharpening, personally, but yes if removing material from the clad surfaces the softer steel would make things faster.

mr_anderson said:
I'm not so sure of that. Take an excellent example(not some random maker) of a real samurai sword from the period, they have have a hard time figuring out how it was made and it's metallurgy to this day, that's how complex they were.
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Hmmmmm...no I'm pretty sure they could figure it out. :)
 
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