Are these heads viable?

L

lan40583

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Oct 9, 2012
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Hi there! This is actually my first post here at bladeforums, although I've been actively reading the Axe/Hatchet/Tomahawk forum for a few months now. My interests in axes started when cleaning out my in-laws garage, when my father-in-law found three of his father's old double bit axes that were in need of some TLC. I fixed them up for him as a Father's Day present and got hooked on re-hanging axes. I've done a few more for myself and various friends and family since then and am accumulating quite a collection.

In the process, i've come up with several heads that I'm not sure what to do with for various reasons. Hopefully you guys can give me some direction on what to do with these:

First up is a 3.5 pound Collins double bit with what appears to be a surface crack across the face. I've seen axes with cracked eyes and have generally steered clear of them, but this crack didn't present itself until I had removed a thick layer of rust using apple cider vinegar. Since the crack appears to be a small hairline fracture and doesn't extend through to the eye, is this axe safe to hang and use?

CollinsDBSide.jpg


CollinsDBinside.jpg



Next up is an unknown USA made Rig Builder's Hatchet with a disproportionately sized eye. I know that normally the top of the eye is larger than the bottom, but in this case the bottom of the eye is much larger than the top. I'm really not sure that this one is fixable, since the handle would have to be tapered quite a bit to extend through the top of the eye.

RBHatchetSide.jpg


Top
RBHatchetTop.jpg


Bottom
RBHatchetBottom.jpg



Finally, I have an odd-shaped small hatchet of unknown origin. The bottom of the blade has quite a drop, similar to a Hudson Bay pattern, but the top of the bit is sloped downward from the eye. Strangely, the top of the axe looks like it was made that way, rather than having been reshaped by someone later. I'm planning on hanging this one soon, and was wondering if someone had any clues as to its origin or whether other axes of this style were common.

SmallHatchetSide2.jpg


SmallHatchetSide1.jpg


SmallHatchetTop.jpg




Thanks for taking a look. I would appreciate any advice from the knowledgeable axe-men here.
 
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yep the third one is a Tommy. excellent hard steel
find a good hatchet handle with a nice curve for it.

all good
buzz
 
Thanks Cooperhill and Markv, that definitely matches what I've got!

Anyone have any idea about the first two axe heads? I'm not sure if either of them are usable due to the imperfections mentioned above.
 
The ad says 1.50$, I will give you 2 bucks for it.:p

Second one is a lathing hatchet. Plumb made some nice ones.

That eye taper will make it tricky to hang, but check out some hammer handles, the bottom taper may allow it to fit neatly in a swell, and it might still take a wedge ok.
Just be careful when you swing it around.
 
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lan40583 said:
I'm not sure if either of them are usable due to the imperfections mentioned above.
Click to expand...

Oh hell, yeah. Nothing wrong with those at all. Hang 'em and use 'em. The Collins is in great shape. The hatchet looks strange with the fat eye walls. It ought to pack one helluva punch.
 
The eye of the half hatchet is fine. The crack in the Collins is weirding me out, though. I don't think I would use it...I don't know. Actually, I know I wouldn't, but I have a few others already. If it was my only DB, then maybe I would....
 
On the Collins DB, are you SURE that is a crack? Could it be an old scratch mark that the vinegar affected differently than the rest of the head?

Just a thought. I know any kind of acid etch will make sanding scratches DEEPER, not go away, since the acid affects the entire surface the same way. (Found this out the hard way and got to do about 3 hours extra hand sanding on a blade because of it)

I would definitely hang the half hatchet.

randy
 
To me, it definitely appears to be a crack. I know its hard to see in the picture, but there is a very thin black line running about 2/3 the length of the head. The shiny portion at the edge of the crack is likely a result of the vinegar bath.

Any idea what sorts of stresses would cause a crack like this to form? I've never seen another axe head with a crack across the face, but I've seen several with cracked eyes.
 
Does the crack show up on the other side or inside the poll? If you tap it with a light touch with a hammer does it ring or thud? If it is a keepsake then leave it and keep it for that. If not you could think about running a weld right over it then grinding it to make it look less Franken-axey. I would use it at that point.
 
Willseeyalater,

The crack only appears on one side of the head, and doesn't extend into the eye. I tried the hammer like you suggested, and it rings like a bell on both sides of the head. Striking the head in the middle on both sides produces the same tone, as well.
 
I guess it's your call if you want or need an axe to have this one welded to close the flaw. It may be wiser to find another one that you have more confidence in. My take on it is if the iron rings when tapped the crack does not go all the way through and a weld over it would do a lot to keep it from spreading if it ever would of. There's a good chance whoever had it before you used it this way and never gave it a thought if they even knew it had this line there. It hasn't failed yet.

Your hatchet looks like it is cast iron? Am I right? Looking at the grind marks it looks just like the cleanup grinds on cast iron pans.
 
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Thanks Will. Do you think it's more likely that this was a manufacturing defect, or that it happened after the fact?
 
If it was all banged up you would think it was done by a user after being made. It is probably a surface flaw related to hardening and tempering. I don't really know, just supposing.
 
Liam Ryan,

Yes, it rings with the same tone above and below the crack, and on both sides in the exact middle of the head. Tapping the cheeks near the bits actually produces kind of a "double-tone," but that was the same on both sides.
 
willseeyalater said:
It is probably a surface flaw related to hardening and tempering.
Click to expand...

Yes. This.

I'd just hang it and use it. If it fails it probably isn't going to happen all at once. If you elect to weld it just remember that welding at the bit will heat it and may damage the temper. If you stayed back 1/2" from the edge with your weld you'd likely be OK. The other thing you can do is wrap a wet rag over the bit while you weld.
 
The hairline fissure that you're dealing with is in all likeliness, as previously mentioned, a product of improper forging. When a rushed cooling which fails to allow the proper molecular crystallization formed by naturally cooled bonds between molecules, structural weaknesses emanate. I'd even venture to say that this weakness wasn't visible to the naked eye even when brand new because it's the surface rust that formed in the fissure and A) got eaten away in the acidic treatment and B) got physically removed by whatever sanding/grinding you performed to restore it. The suggested audible testing by listening for variances in chimes is clever and pretty much proved that the head is intact further acknowledging this flaw as nothing but superficial. Treat it like a crappy off speed pitch, hang it and bang it!

PS - If you have no intention of painting over it, don't bother with the welding unless you want to make an eyesore even worse. The flux in the welding material will likely polish up brighter than the original cast material albeit at a stronger bond strength than the gap you're trying to mask. Good luck and hope all turns out well.
 
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