Are They Realy Worth It?

S

slewis36

Joined
Jun 17, 2001
Messages
52
Okay Folks,
I have a question. Why are the custom knives worth so much more? I realize that the makers put a lot of time and skill into making them, and should get paid for their hard work. What I am trying to find out, is if the result is really a better carry, or using , knife. I have looked at custom knives at the Blade Show, and generally get run out for drooling all over the floor. I believe that as works of art, many knives are worth every penny charged, maybe even more. BUT, can they cut any better? I can sharpen a $25. to $50. blade where it will peal the hair from my arm without the slightest pull. I can't see how a custom knife can get any sharper. If the same steel is used, and tempered to the same hardness, other than fit and finish, what is the difference? I have never had the pleasure of using a custom, or even a high end factory knife. Can anyone educate me? Maybe I am just a peasant, or a reverse snob. Is it just the pleasure of having one, or are they really better for working?:)
 
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

DAMN RIGHT.
now, some of the materials might be the same,but man, customs kick mucho ass.
go buy a good one,then you'll know

-mo
recruiter for the darkside
 
Things have changed over the last 20 or so years. It used to be that if you wanted a knife that would perform in a reasonable manner you had to go with a custom maker. Now, many of the factory made knives are as good and in SOME cases better then SOME hand made knives.

Dozier knives, for instance, will outperform (IMHO) most factory knives and cost very little if any more $$, but they are not art knives. When you buy a custom makers work, you are paying for his name and probably years of learning how to do it right. If you are lucky, his knives will be worth a lot more in the future (investment?). Also, don't discount pride of ownership and appreciation of a piece of art.

I'm sure that there will be other comments and some points that I missed will be mentioned.
 
You will find that most "customs" are better built than most production knives. Fit and finish with a custom is better, tighter tolerances, better grade of materials, better heat treat. The custom maker can put the time in on a knife where a production knife doesn't get the attention for obvious reasons. Is the custom worth the extra money over a production knife? To many, that is a matter of opinion. Once you get a custom knife to your liking, you will form your own opinion. For me, knives from the better makers will almost always be worth the extra cost.:) That is not to say you won't get good service from a production knife. Most production knives provide excellent value.

When all is said and done, you will have learned a lot, made some friends and had a good time trying to find the answer to your question.
 
What kind of car do you drive? :)

Some people love generic brands of food. Some people think art is a total waste of time. Some people love things they have never owned and some people hate things they have never owned.

If you caught yourself drooling over custom knives, ask yourself "why?" Then, ask ourself why you even went to a knife show. After all, lots of stores sell knives!

Wouldn't any sharpened piece of tool steel do the same job? So, why buy anything else?


Sorry, you've got to answer this one yourself! ;)
 
NOTE - THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS SARCASM

No. They aren't worth it. Knives are just steel, and there's no point in trying to find "nice" knives. Additionally, what's with everyone needing so many knives? I mean, how much do you guys really have to cut? I just have one Cutco knife, and that patented edge takes care of everything!
 
People, maybe I didn't express myself to well. I am not even thinking about "Pride of ownership". or special fit and finish. I really want to know if they make better working knives. Will a custom knife cut open reed sacks, cut up cardboard boxes, filet a fish, make snare triggers, skin and clean small game, etc better than a good factory knife. Or do people buy them just because they are so d--n beautiful?
Brian, judging by your picture, I think that my Chihuahua would like to meet you. (JOKE) No insult intended. ....Steve
 
They might not be "worth it" to you. It all depends on what exactly you want. If you aren't fussy on blade shapes or finishes, sizes or materials, customs will look pretty expensive! Take the Camillus CQB-1 knife for example. Black micarta handle, ATS-34 blade, spear point, false edge and a blast finish. I think ISKS sells them for around $125. This would be a great utility field blade! Now suppose you wanted a green handle. Camillus can't do much for you. Suppose you want BG-42, or perhaps a nice tool steel. AN extra 1/2" longer, some thicker steel, and a single guard. Hmm, now the CQB isn't what you want!

Custom makers are about CUSTOM designs! Most makers have a "standard" line of their own, but even these are just guidelines for customers. If you want a Kit Karson Model 4 folder but some special handle material or perhaps some engraving or filework or whatever, Kit can do it.

A factory knife may have the same materials, and their heat treats are in many cases probably top knotch. But you have to be happy with what the factory puts out, while you can get EXACTLY what you want with a custom. This costs more money, as all hand made custom processes do.
 
A friend of mine never understood why one would be willing to pay for a custom when a good factory knife would do the job. I asked him, "do you enjoy driving your twelve-cylinder BMW 750 more than your former Honda Accord?" A light went on.

DPD.
 
I fully understand the question asked. And in most cases the answer is NO. Given the same steel at the same hardness (HT quality being equal), then a custom will "cut" no better then a factory. Put both blades in a cutting machine and they should turn out the same end result.

The question is not whether you enjoy it more, but if it does the job any better. A BMW does not get you to the store any faster or safer than a 1970 F150.

However, all that said. All humans are differant, the world of mass prodution has tried to tell us that "one size fits all", and any thinking person knows thats just not true. If you are spending a good deal of time working with a knife, be it as a butcher in the super market, a hunter dressing out game, a soldier doing who knows what, or a sailor doing rigging work, you will develope a certain way of doing things. A factory knife does not account for this, they make what they think will best fit "most" people. Because that is who they need to sale to.

How many knives have you used and said to yourself "this is a fine knife, but I only wish..........". That is where a custom maker comes in. You can say, "I love knife X but the finger groove is just set a little too far back, and you know I would really like a clip point instead on the drop point. Oh, and can we take a little more wieght off the back end. And while we are at it, I do like the black G10, but red is my favorite color, can we make the handles red G10. And you know this sheath sits just a hair to low, can we make one that sits a little higher".

By the time your done, not only will you have a knife that is perfect for your needs, it will not be anything close to the factory knife you brought in.

In the end, the knife WILL perform better because it will be better FOR YOU. Not because of some secret voodoo that we do to the steel, but because it was designed by you to fit your needs.

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Ok, I may be the one who just doesn't get it. Personally, most customs I've seen are nice works of art. But when it comes to skinning game, opening boxes, personal protection, I'll take a "good" production folder any day (If I lose it oh well). Sure some are real nice, but not hundreds of $$$$ nicer.
Plus I think it is unfair to compair knives to cars. First, the vehicles mentioned are "production" cars not customs. True there are nicer production cars just like with knives. But I would much rather drive my production Ferrari than Billy Bobs custom x6, made in his tool shed. Maybe I'm off base here but when it comes to machines, I would be willing to bet that the BIG companies are on the cutting edge of what works best for blade manufacturing:confused:
Just 2cents from a guy who looks for "beauty" in a good deal:D
 
Who said that a high quality custom needs to be hundreds of dollars more than a good factory. The average price for one of my customs is just $175. And that includes a tooled leather sheath that no factory offers. Last I checked, many of the Good factory knives were more than that.

BTW - You would chose a factory folder for skinning game? To each his own I guess.


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IMO custom knives are wello worth the difference paid for them. That amount is not always as much as some think it is. A production with anywhere near the quality of a custom will cost just about as much or as much as the custom. Look at the new WH Icon, it can cost over $500.00 as can some knives from TiNives. Even some of the knives from Micro Tech can cost just about that much.

I think being able to order what you want, have a knife that not everyone else can have, and getting to know some of the makers first hand, makes buying a custom knife well worth the price. :)
 
Okay Guys, I think that you have answered my questions. A good factory knife will do whatever a custom will do in most cases, except stroke my ego, fill me with pride, give me unlimited bragging rights, etc. I love knives, they are mankinds first manufactured tool. But they are tools first and foremost. Between S.S. and VA disability, I clear just over $10,000. per yr. I have to plan carefully if I want a $50. knife. Luckily I have a very understanding wife. I want a damascus folder, and a custom 6" belt knife someday, and I am working slowly toward getting them. I will have them, and hopefully more in time. Now I know that the reason that I need some custom knives, is to make me feel good. I can now work to justify the expense to myself. The way that you'al talk, I think that I will feel REAL good.
Yes Mr Clark I use factory knives to skin game. So did most of our ancestors. I have a $5.oo knife from Wal Mart, an Imperial made in Ireland, that will clean and dress a good sized deer, including rough skinning before needing sharpening. I prefer to use a better knife, but I decided to try this one yr., worked great. I bought it because I have a thing about thin flat-ground blades. I feel that they slice much better than saber ground blades.
Thanks to all of you for your answers......Steve
 
A couple more things for you to think about.

Factories are set up for doing what is economically feasible. Did you know that you can differentially heat treat 440-C, ATS-34 and BG-42? I didn't know that, until I saw a post by Paul Bos (legendary heat treater) and I called him up and talked to him about it. No factory stainless steel knife is differentially heat treated, because to do so would make the price absolutely ridiculous. A custome maker, however, can do these sorts of details because most of the time a knfie is made one at a time, so anything is feasible!

Here's my tip for you. There are a lot of newbie makers out there, and you can get a custom for a low price from one of these makers. Sure, the fit and finish won't be as good as something from Mr. Fisk or Darrel Ralph, but you can get a custom for a lower than "usual" price from newbies. I am a newbie maker, but I don't take orders (yet)! I am doing this as a hobby right now. but you could save your money and check in with any newbie maker and get a custom that you can afford. Just another option for you.
 
To be brutally truthful, the most cost effective general-purpose cutting tool is probably an X-acto knife with replaceable blades. I have to admit that buying $500 knives is probably not a smart business decision but when it comes to knives my usual miserly self disappears and in its place is a kid looking at new toys. I didn't need a Kit Carson folder for the cutting tasks I do but I WANTED (and got) one. Two actually ;)

Besides, its only money anyway :D

Andrew L
 
Man talk about generalities. I really don't see how anyone can answer this question before putting it into a meaningful perspective. It's kind of like asking whether the Earth is big or small?

slewis36,
If I understand your question, you want to know whether the performance gained with a custom knife justifies the premium we are asked to pay over the price of a similar factory production knife.

We cannot answer this for you.

First:

Although the words "custom" and "production" are in common usuage, there is a real divergence of opinion within the industry over which types of knives fall into either catagory. Over the years many custom knife makers have evolved their knifemaking to make use factory production techniques. At the same time some factories have adjusted their production strategies, and established collaborations with custom makers, to develop knives that match the quality levels which previously could only be obtained from custom makers, and some of these factories offer, custom options.

So Chris Reeves used to make Custom knives, but today he is making Production knives; Randall knives was once a Custom maker, today they seem more like high end production knives - maybe; Some argue that the same can be said for Walter Brend, Maddog, Greco and many others. You going to have to decide who falls into either catagory to your satisfaction.

Second,

We are all unique. We are physically different, we have different levels of skill, and we need our knives for different tasks. A production knife might be fine for you and your needs, but ackward for someone else and their requiremnents. I know guys who have purchased custom knives because the handles available on production knives did not fit their hand.

One thing though, whether, "Production" or "Custom", you generally get what you pay for. The less you spend the less you can expect to get in materials, fit, and finish.

N2S
 
Is it perfect? Does it fit your hand? Do you like the overall look and feel of it? These are the things to pay attention to first. Even if it cuts like a lightsaber, doesn't matter if you can't stand to hold/carry the damned thing. Second thing is, does it cut? Take a proper edge? Not snag up or hang on what you intend to cut with it most? Does it hold the edge that you want for a reasonable amount of time? Mild steel will take a razor edge, it just won't hold it for more than one cut. 52100 will hold it for thousands of cuts. The last thing to look at is, who made it? Is this a person/company you want to support? If you don't care about any of these points, disregard them, but I think the priority is important.
All snobbery aside, if you want it or like it, buy it. Who made it matters means nothing if it's right for you.
 
Hi, I'm the nut case at the gun shows that chops on rebar then cuts paper. It's an eye opener. True they're $400, but the people tell me it's worth it.
 
Okay, let me throw my 2 cents into this one. Yes, in most cases you can do the same thing with a well made production folder, but consider the fact that production companies have the equipment and the resources available to mass produce knives. Custom makers do not, therefore, it is more time consuming and more expensive to produce knives on the custom level. Think of that many noted makers who are backlogged with orders. Also, consider the fact that making knives is most likely a full time job for many makers and think of the overall hours it takes producing just a handful of knives. That's why I feel the higher price for a custom knife is justified.
 
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