Are we asking for it?

R

RickdelM

Joined
Jan 22, 2000
Messages
65
I love the fact that with the spydie hole I can open my knives as easily as a switchblade without worrying about legal issues or reliability issues. However on the cover of this months Tactical knives issue are pictures of two assisted opening models from Timberline. You manually open them about a quarter of the way and then they flick open the rest of the way. To me this is trying to get around the switchblade laws with a technicality. My worry is that if these assisted opening knives come under attack, that all one hand opening knives will be brought into question. I am afraid that we are one stupid report from 60 minutes away from facing a potential ban.

If these knives fufilled some need, I could deal with them much more easily. But there is nothing that they do that I cannot do with my Spydercos. They are just asking for media attention.

Am I just overeacting here?

Rick
 
Hi Rick

No, I don't believe that you are over reacting at all.
It's exactly as you said, it only takes this sort of advertising to create enough media attention for an investigation to begin, then who knows where things will end up ?
Believe me, living in the UK, I know all about how narrow minded folks can be with regards to knives. A recent investigation along the same lines ended up with the phrase "...anyone who carries a knife is a “potential murderer"…" being plastered all over the UK media. (fully discussed on the European Community Forum http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum38/HTML/000070.html )
IMHO I just think that it's sad that any media attention that knives receive always seems to be manipulated to be negative. Which unfortunately doesn't paint a bright future for all of the knuts out there !

StevieK
 
Well another run in on Sat!

One customer said to me when I used my AFCK to open a box.

"is that swichblade company issue?"

I had to show him the knife and how it opened. It seems one handed opening is a big no-no even in the work place!

Damn Sal, the SpyderHole works sooooo well!

W.A.

------------------
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
 
I too have gotten The Hairy Eyeball from folks at work for opening a knife "too quickly". Totaly legitimate, non-threatening use.
Live & learn...

------------------
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" (Celtic Proverb)
AKTI# A000107
 
I have heard about Sal's legendary speed in whipping out his Military, and several people have asked him to put an MPEG on the web so we can all see it. Though I would like to see it in person, I suspect Sal is samrt in not placing a video like this on the web. As a prominent spokesman for the knife industry it would be difficult to try to testify about the basic utility of Spyderco knives while a Senator plays a video of your quick draw action in the background.

Rick
 
Pretty scary when a logical evolution of a tool is regarded by some as a ferocious weapon.

I don't think you are over reacting. I am surprised some politician hasn't already tried to include any one hand opening means as a switchblade.

------------------
Dennis Bible

mylogosmall.gif
 
I can't count the amount of times I have heard people refer to regular folding knives as "switchblades." People immediatley think the worst of any knife they see
frown.gif


I got stopped at a security check once with my Delica. The gaurd asked what I had it for. I replied something to the effect of "it's a tool."
He looked really pissed at me and challenged me. "A tool?!?!?" He said.
I kept my composure and replied "Yea. It cuts stuff: rope, boxes, you know...."
He didn't look too happy so I left it in my car and came back
frown.gif
frown.gif


Whenever I hear people tell stories of street thugs they've seen with "switchblades" I figure they're BSing. If a street thug did have am auto, I'd be glad
biggrin.gif
Any auto that a thug could get his hands on would be such a piece of crap that it probably would never hurt anyone.

At first I was intrigued by the assisted openers. Then I realized that none of them were well built and I could handle my spydies alot better. Plus, why do I need it anyway... oh well... people like gadgets.
 
Actually, I believe California made an attempt at one time about One hand opening knives. I don't remember the how the Legislature tried to approach it, but it was defeated and actually came out a little in our favor. I believe now you can carry any sized folder concealed and folded with out it being classified as a weapon. You may want to check out the Politics Forum and see if any of this info is in there.

I understand where your coming from and I agree somewhat. The big thing here is education and that falls on all of our shoulders. I have been working really hard on educating a co-worker who is a reserve cop on knives. It started out anything with an edge was a weapon. End of story. I now have her interested in knives and she is much more open minded about people carrying knives. At the same time, I have also increased her awareness about knives in the hands of BGs. She is passing this on to her friends at her department.

------------------
If ignorance is bliss,
why aren't more people happy?
 
One hand opening knives were almost made illegal last year in California. The current law states that one hand opening knives cannot be considered to be switch-blades. However, the California District Attorney's Association wanted to remove the exemption. AKTI prevented that, but the issue could still make it to the legislature this year.

Check out these threads for the full story:
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/000578.html
www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum30/HTML/000122.html

------------------
Cerulean

"We cut things to create things" - J.K.M.
 
The reason the Switchblade was created was to give people a folding knife they could operate with only one hand. This seems like a no-brainer until you start reading some posts that mention Switchblade Knives.

It is a wonderful idea and people being people, are easily led by political miscreants and crisis creators into believing that a simple pocketknife, because it had a spring in it and you could open it with one hand, was somehow terrible.

It always goes this way, instead of addressing the crime and the people who perpetrate that crime, a certain segment of the Society always desires to see the BEST in people and blame the criminal and deranged acts of a few, on inanimate objects.

All of these incredibly thoughtful ways of opening a one handed knife are just that, they are well thought out ways and designs to circumvent the standing Laws on Switchblade Knives. Because, the purpose of the Switchblade was never to frighten or intimidate as the Foes of it suggest, but to simply open a folding knife using one hand. The same goes for Gravity Knives.

So, in a very real way, all of these ways of opening one handed knives are ways of skirting the current law...and rightfully so because those laws are illegitimate and based on demonization, fear and artificial crisis creation to begin with.

You can substitute "One-Handed Opener" with Speed Assist, Hole, Disc, Stud, Switchblade, Gravity, or BaliSong. It does not matter really, they are all one handed knives, some like the BaliSong, requiring a higher degree of skill though.

I'm amazed that as a Society we have not banned everything except Sporks actually.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 01-29-2001).]
 
To me, the difference in whether a knife opens with one hand or two, or is of the fixed blade variety is of no consequence. I've yet to meet anyone who can relate an actual crime committed using a 'switchblade' or any other 'one-hand' knife for that matter. I used to be able to draw and open my Buck 110 almost as fast as my Spyders.

As an LEO I take dozens and dozens of knives away from people. Once in a great while I encounter a Spyderco or Benchmade. I can only permanently confiscate the knives under narrow circumstances. (Double edge, auto, or as evidence of another crime, etc.) Almost all of the knives I take are of the 'inexpensive' variety. (I'm trying to be kind here.) In my evidence locker, over 10 years, I've accumulated excactly one (1) Spyderco and one (1) Benchmade. Neither knife is a dangerous weapon per se under Mass. law. Both were taken because by statute here any weapon carried during a breach of the peace is illegal. Neither defendant was charged with a weapon offense. If either was smart enough to come and ask for their knives back, they could have them!

I'd like to see some statistics on quality knives used in the commission of pre-planned criminal activity. Keep in mind that just about anything can be used as a weapon of opportunity. What are we gonna outlaw next? Sticks and stones?

Ben

------------------
"If you're upside down and burning, you probably went too fast."
 
ThinkOfTheChildren: I have to disagree with you about the quality of assisted-openers. I have not handled any Timerlines, but the two Ken Onion Kershaws I have owned (Ricochet and Boa) have both been among the finest knives I've ever seen. The materials and workmanship are superb, similar to a custom. Either would be considered a top-quality knife without the "speed safe" feature.

--Bob Q
 
bquinlan-

Sorry if I made to broad of a generalization. I guess I can only speak from my experiences.

The local knife shop I frequent carries more speed safe Kershaws than they do of any other knife: they're that popular. I have played with a couple and all the ones I've handled have had blade play in all directions. I also didn't like the feel or stability of the handles on the blackouts and whirlwind. The avalanche seems nicer but still had play. I liked the boa but it opened much slower than the others and also had play.

Maybe this was a bad batch or maybe the clerks had been abusing them from too many dull hours with no customers (wouldn't be the first time)

The Timberlines seem nicer to me but I dislike the lock. It rather than sliding back to disengage it slides forward. This would seem problematic if you thrust into something: a tight grip could disengage the lock during impact. The handles are also slippery on the Timberlines which heightens the possibility of this scenario.

It seems that if inertia opening of folders is detrimental towards their life then an opening system such as these would tear up the knife over time.... maybe they've solved that problem.

I dunno... maybe I'm just biased cuz they aren't spydies
biggrin.gif


Anyway, sorry if I made too much of a generalization... I just like other knives alot more.
 
I don't like the idea that we're somehow "asking for it" by trying to circumvent restrictive, unfair laws. It's as if we should be blamed by the acts of those who pass stupid legislation in an attempt to apease the irrational fears that they've insuflated themselves, with the help of their accomplices in the media.
Instead of being concerned with not angering the anti self-defense crowd, we should be busy fighting for our rights. Joining the AKTI and making it as strong as the NRA would be a good start, IMHO.
Leo

------------------
"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
Hello all, my second post to this board, and I must say I've very much enjoyed reading this board since it was pointed out to me by a friend. I did post something that happened to me on the Tactical forum, I'd direct your attention to it:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001119.html

a summary is that I broke up a fight (just by holding someone) and when the officers arrived was handcuffed at a precaution, and when asked if I had a weapon admitted to a Spyderco Chinook in my waistband. I was in the right and my Chinook was returned to me, but I was cautioned, (even though it stayed in my waistband the whole time) that it was 'scary looking' and I should be careful using it where someone could see me.

I did when they asked me to open it, use both hands, and got a strange look from one officer who I swear had a Police on their belt
smile.gif


The reason I used a two hand open when asked, is that I have in the past gotten the same reactions people here have for suddenly producing a knife that they didn't even see before. I agree it is only a matter of one sixty-minute special before we have problems with one-hand holders being demonized like auto-knives.

I think we have to be careful as knife users to keep this from happening. While I normally would not open my Spyderco with two hands except under duress
smile.gif
, I do try to open it slowly in a public place, and also emphasize that it is a tool. Knives are weapons, but, at least for me, I carry one because I use it to cut things at least once a day. I doubt I'll ever use my knife as a weapon, if I have to it's there, but most of the time I use it to cut rope and such.

And the Chinook is a great tool, my first Spyderco and definately not my last, despite it's tactical design, I love it because as I have a partially serrated version, it has a belly to it's straight section that lets me slice without engaging the serrated part. I can slice sausage and cheese and such with the belly, or use the serrated for cutting rope, wood, or webbing.

I wander. The point is that good knives, good well designed knives, are often 'scary looking' even to LEO's. I agree with the premis of this thread in that if it comes up, they will be looked at as weapons alone, and we won't have any friends in the increasingly paranoid anti-crime public. I hope it doesn't happen.

Best,
Todd (edgedance)

 
I think there must be a move to legitimize weapons instead of running from them. They're useful, they might take lives, but in the proper and just hands, they are capable of saving them as well.

And that is a good thing...

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
well, I imagine we have very few statistics on how often knives save lives, vs. kinfe crime (which doesn't even if one reads statistics, seem to be a huge problem)

I imagine if one started to record stories about how someone that happened to have a knife on them saved a life, it would fill a couple of web pages.

Best,

Todd (edgedance)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top