Arkansas Stones: Density = Fineness?

C

CLuttrell

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Dec 19, 2012
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I got all new Arkansas stones for Christmas and I have been trying to figure out if my hard translucent is finer than my hard black. All three of the stones are Norton's and are 8x3x1/2". The hard black came finer to the touch but the translucent has smoothed out using it. Well, I decided to weigh them today to see if that gave me any insight. The soft arkansas weighs 340 grams, the hard translucent weighs 425 grams, and the hard black weighs 475 grams. Norton's chart lists both the translucent and the black to be the same, but I have also read that several people disagree with the chart.

My translucent seems to give just a little more polish than the black, but the black still seems finer to the touch. What do you guys think, do the weights give me the true answer or did I waste my time weighing the stones?

Chris
 
Good questions. I'm not sure if density/volume will be a straight line comparable to weight/volume in this case as some of the other materials might weigh more than the natural silica that makes up novaculite. It might be you'd have to measure displacement in water or some other fluid?
 
Great, those size and grade Norton Arkansas stones are of good quality and not so common plus, run a pretty penny. Weighing them may give some insight toward which is more dense but there are many factors to consider. i.e. exact size and demsions must match to compare. The black is finer as weve discussed this topic many times here perhaps at 11-1200 grit and the Translucent at 1000-1100. Plus, the black are harder to come by. Harder to find in quarrying operations of good quality and is found deeper. A hint to its higher value.I have and use all the grades of Arkansas stones and have post pictures of them. Spyderco has a good chart on sharpening grits and stones. DM
 
Thanks for the input guys. Yeah the translucent and the black were not cheap, but if I was going to get new stones I wanted some good ones. I did measure them this afternoon with a set of old calipers and it was pretty amazing how dang close all of them were to the advertised size. The hard black was about 1/32" to 1/16" thicker than the other two, but they are really uniform and flat. However even that much will change the density when we are measuring in grams.

I have read extensively on Arkansas stones the past two to three months and there seems to be a lot of differing opinions between the blacks and the translucents. Since they are natural stones and are said to differ from mine to mine and even vein to vein, I didn't know if a blanket statement about fineness could even be made between the two. That is why I was attempting to measure the two I had to see if I could somehow come up with good way to tell...at least between the two I have.

David, when you are progressing through the grits during a sharpening session, do you use both your translucent and your black or are they so close you just pick one? I paid handsomely for both of mine and probably didn't need both, but if I didn't buy both, I would have always been left wondering what the other one would have been like. Plus, the guy I bought mine from said he didn't know if he would be able to get another shipment of the blacks or not. I am going to use both, maybe not during the same sharpening session, but alternating them as a finishing stone.

It seems the Arkansas stones have fallen out of favor with most people and while I have other type stones, I don't enjoy them as much. Maybe I'm just traditional...spelled archaic! I did get a full set of India stones as well, 8x3x1/2" so I should be set for the rest of time when it comes to oilstones!

Chris
 
I called Dan at Dan's Whet Stones and he was the one that verified to me that the Black was finer than the Translucent and is quarried deeper. Perhaps he knows something as he's been in the business for 30+ yrs.. Plus, they are becoming more rare. The light grey stones sold by Woodworking supplies are not of the quality your Norton stones will be. Norton was the first to contract with a quarry and market Arkansas stones around 1900. There's are of very good quality and consistent. Not having to level or finish them. So, it doesn't suprise me that you mention this. These natural stone vary greatly in quality. Dan's are good as well. My Black is a Norton from 1985 and I still have it's box and my Translucent as well. Norton labels them as Jewler's stones. They are of good quality and very fine. They cut different as their grain structure is different more akin to pushing a blade down a cobblestone road.
They are a finishing/ polishing stone. I'll mostly use one or the other depending on the edge I want. On my razor, it's the Black. Should you desire to enhance their cutting abilities use a slurry with them. In the photo is all 5 grades, Washita (a speckled kahki stone), white soft(a combo stone w/ the lighter black), true hard(a 4X8 beige stone w/ a streak of pink), Translucent(brown wooden box) and Black (w/ a orange and blue box). DM
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Thanks for the reply and I like your collection. I don't have a Washita stone but figured I didn't really need one since I have a fine India. Do you use it very much? Does it have any advantage over a fine India?

I have read Dan's website but have never spoken to him personally. I even have a soft/hard arkansas combo stone from him. I like the hard arkansas side but not the soft arkansas stone side as it seems to vary in texture way too much. My Norton soft arkansas is much better in my opinion.

I knew Dan said the black's were finer, but Norton called them equal and both have been at it for a long time. I just wondered if Dan's mines produced better black's than translucent's and supposed that maybe Norton's mines could be a little different in that regard. I'm not trying to disprove anyone, just asking questions and trying to learn more.

By the way, your true hard stone definitely has some color character!

Chris
 
Thanks. My true hard expresses the same color as Dan defines as Translucent but one cannot go by color alone as the tightness of it's grain structure matters. So, I down graded it to true hard. I think others would as well. I'm not a Geologist, my degree's not in that field. Yet, I know if one has to dig deeper for a mineral it's been formed under greater pressure and in sedimentary rock hence more dense. Plus, Arkansas stones are quarried in and around hot springs, hence volcanic activity = great heat and ash with trapped, water filtered particles. Black colorations are getting harder to find so hence they went to marketing the Translucent as the same.(you paid a premium price for your black). Plus, placing a definative grit on natural stones is quite difficult and I trust those with great experience in this field. We pick at this because its of interest to us stone owners. The Washita is rated at 4-500 grit and leaves an edge a step finer than the fine India. Plus, a different edge, smooth with less bite. Its a softer stone but cuts quicker with larger grains. This grade is becoming hard to find as well. I enjoy using my India stones too. Be glad you got the high quality natural stones you have and US made. DM
 
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