Art knife question

shappa

shappa

Joined
Oct 15, 1998
Messages
3,556
Gentlemen and ladies, What makes a custom knife an "Art" knife rather than just a custom. How do you determine it's crossed that gap.

Is it price?

Is it usefullness?

Is it the rarity of the materials used?

Perhaps it's the obvious skill and precision of the maker?

I've seen many makers works here that I would consider art but others consider them their every day carry.

What makes an art knife an art knife?

Thanks

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~~TOM~~
 
Wow, talk about a difficult question to give a definate answer to. The difference can be such a fine blurry line, and at the same time can be very obvious.

Take the Kit Carson model 4 for example. IMO a basic version of that knife (g10 handles and ats34 blade) does not qualify as art. Instead it is an extremely high quality everyday using knife. However, take the same model that has a nice wood handle or stag or pearl, and add a damascus blade and maybe a touch of file work, and I think you have a knife that can easily be considered a work of art, and a very usable piece of art at that.

On the other hand, you have a maker like Tim Herman. To me there is no arguing that his knives constitute art. The clean graceful lines, the tasteful engraving, very classy handle in-lays and the overall appearence would allow his knives to fit right in to any art display at the finest museums around. However, people who have handles his knives can readily see that as masterful and pretty as they are, they are also well put together, and able to be used as any other knife would be. So does that make it artwork, or using knife?

I have here a dagger made for me by Max Burnett. When I discussed this knife with him prior to it being made, the design was very vague with almost no details at first. I gave Max pretty much the freedom to do what he thought best. The thought and imagination that he put into the knife resulted in a dagger design that had just the right touch that defines this as "not just another dagger" but instead one that there is no mistaking who made it. To me this knife is both art as the maker sees it, and a heavy duty user as he intended it to be. Best of both worlds.

You decide, art or user?
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Maybe there should be a name for some of these knives like 'functional art' or something. Whatever they are, I like them.



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I Imediately think of Warenski,Frank,Herman,and others that I just don't have the time to post there names. Art knife to me is just that, a functional knife that is at home hanging on the wall of a mueseum or in a den. Materials,craftsmanship and imagination all combine to make unique one of a kind blades. True art knives I think of more as an investment then a user unless I were Bill Gates then I could afford to make my entire collection users cause money would never matter LOL.
Bob
 
I will probably post on this when I get home tonight, but my initial thoughts correspond to all the points you made Shappa except for cost and use.

I have a few customs under 200.00 that are art to me and I use the heck out of them.
Same with an Apogee DA and a Chew DA in Pearl with mosaic bolsters (the Chew does not see heavy use but the Apogee does).

On the other end of the spectrum, I have a nice piece by Dellana in my colection. It is every bit as much of a knife as any of the others (I will not buy an "art knife" that is not a knife first and foremost.) It has a bit of emblishment and higher end materials, but I will put up the construction of the knife and its quality against any other user I own. It is a tough knife regardless of it's embleshments. I know this because I know the maker does not compromise just because they are building something on the "fancy" side and can see and feel the quality.

I consider those users art two. Neil is working on a white water rescue knife for me. It will be a user and I will consider it art also. I consider my Doziers art. Why not they are ergonomic and I consider Bob's designs and heat treat of D2 an art.

I have never handled any of Kit's work (fancy or plain) that I do not consider art. I am not sure what else the fit, finish and functionality blend can be called? That statement in my mind can be applied to any quality maker out there.

The damascus pieces I own I consider art too. The folks that forged them would probably be happier if I used more of those knives (I still have not figured out a good use for a dagger since I am not a hit man, but I love them
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). Humm maybe splinter removal
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I love knives of all types and do not have a problem considering the ordering or purchase of a knife that I will not use. The terms art, functionality and use are not mutually exclusive in fact I like knives that incorporate all of those aspects.

Try grinding and finishing a piece of steel.
Talk about a learned art.

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" The real art of living is to keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post in memory of James Mattis
 
A very complex question. Art exists on more than one level. It is also very subjective. Painting is an easy form to use for example.

For some folks, Elvis on black velvet is as good as art gets. Despite his unbelievable success, many people think that most of Picasso's work is ugly. I have no idea where my love of impressionism came from, but can say honestly that almost everything I've seen by Monet and Pissaro just knocks me out.

In knives, I tend to look most at design in determining art, I guess. I like simple, clean lines, and I don't mind knives that push the envelope a bit in terms of usefulness. But, design that doesn't just leap out at you, that is felt in ergonomics, in comfortable handles for long hours of work, little things that make a knife so much more effective to use than the great mass of them, that is art too.

One of my personal favorites amongst knifemakers, solely because of design, since I've never touched one of his knives, is Thomas Haslinger. In both his "regular" knives and his "art knives" I see beauty and economy of line that just really grabs me. In case you wish to check him out, here is his URL:
http://members.home.net/thknives/

Ultimately, it is all personal. I'm sure thousands of Buck 110 owners will go to their graves convinced that is a beautiful knife. A lot of Spyderco fans are wild about the Gunting's design, while others favor the Civilian. Many would see either design as just plain ugly.

I think that maybe there is at least one aspect of knives that transcends the personal/subjective. That is purpose. If a knife is built for a specific purpose and hits the mark, is able to fulfill entirely the intended purpose, then that is probably art, regardless of appearance.

Just my $.02 worth.

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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
Gentlemen, Thank you for your fine, thought provoking posts. You are correct it's not an easy question to answer and it might never be fully explained what makes an art knife an art knife.
I agree that it is quite personal. I like impressionists but surrealists leave me cold.
And photo-realists just leave me confused (why not just take a photo?).
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There are a lot of makers I consider artists. Dozier for his functionality, Brend for his grinds, Herman for his sculptered style . All these (and more) have a style that can be easily reconised.
Costs for these knives are all over the board. Some I could buy tomorrow, some I'd have to sell a car first.
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Strider, I agree that it is a combination of materials,craftsmanship,and imagination that makes an art knife. But I think there is somthing else that is added that makes the knife go from "nice knife" to a jaw dropping "Wow..." I have a hard time defining it but it's there. It's that extra bit of perfection, a touch more intuition on the design.
Still thinking, still learning...

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~~TOM~~
 
This is very much "in the eye of the beholder" . . . but as a judge at a number of custom knife exhibitions over the past 10 years or more, I have been asked to pass judgement on knives submitted into the Art Knife category . . . and then one's views are truly tested!

Owen Wood once described custom knives as "little sculptures". I've always thought this to be accurate, but more so in terms of "artistic" knives. The art knives I, and fellow judges, have been asked to evaluate have ranged from daggers & swords, to folders and battleaxes. They are usually unique in design, and most often constructed from out-of-the-ordinary materials. The makers almost always see them as being one-off, collectable pieces, and often build stands or displays to show them off better. Materials most often used include damascus steel, titanium, gold, silver, ivory, and mammoth. Engraving is usually present, but strangely enough I cannot recall one ever having scrimshaw?! The chosen materials don't make an art knife an art knife. It rests in the design and the construction . . . and an absolute given is that the construction of the knife must be flawless.

I'd have to say that ornate daggers win most often, possibly because they allow a great deal of freedom of artistic expression to a knifemaker. Having said that, fancy folders are featuring strongly these days. One common thread is that "gaudy" doesn't do it . . simplicity of design and tastefulness of execution wins the day. But then again how can one judge "taste" . . .

I'm not crazy about "categorising" knives too much, it inhibits creativity rather than encouraging it . . . and people taste's change. One man's art folder in 1990 is his utility carry in 2000. Damascus was a rare and exclusive steel only 10 short years ago, now it's found on factory pocket knives. Mokume was a jewellers metal until a few years ago, now it's to be seen on knifemakers tables everywhere.

For me, the fascination lies in witnessing how talented, artistic, knifemakers use new found materials and skills to continue to push the envelope of those little sculptures.

Regards, HILTON
 
IMHO- anyone that can start with an idea, work it out on paper (or just in their head), and realize that idea in three dimensions in any combination of materials is a "sculptor". What attracts me to knifemaking is that form follows function and today's makers are creating mankind's most basic tool that still performs and is so pleasing to the eye.
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Tom
Check out a Warenski and more then likely you will get that dropped jaw effect. I know I do.
Bob
 
Jaw Dropping
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http://www.warenskiknives.com


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To me an art knife has form and function, but it must also be pleasing to the eye, most art knives what I consider art knives are made as art knives and not a truly functional user. I have seen some users I would say are pieces of art, but a true art knife would never be a user. Most ppl wouldn't want to mess up a nice $2-5000 knife by using it. I would love to have an art knife budget, alas my personal collection is all users (though they DON'T get used ;-) ).

But I must say art is in the eye of the beholder.

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Peace

Paul
Custom Knife Purveyor
Circle P Knives
 
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