as some may call it (voodoo)

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chad2

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most knife makers have there own personal favorite steel they use, work with. also if they have worked with it long enough usually they have a process that works for them or they think brings more out of the steel, some may call this voodoo. i do not. i personally love to hear or see the hard work people put into there heat treats or voodoo.

what is your voodoo?

from start to finish what is the process you use on your steel of choice or any steel that you use

normallizing

thermal cycling

annealing

hardening

the temps you use

soak times

inbetween times

cryo

temper temps

temp of oil you quench in

type of oil you quench in

even the temp of your room temperature inbetween tempers.

and most of all what type of steel.

this thread is for helping better the world of heat treating

help is alway wanted BUT PLEASE DO NOT TELL SOMEONE THAT THEY ARE WRONG!!!

giving advise is different then saying (that wont work):D

i am sick of the fast boring heat treating processes.
 
Despite your assertions, it can be done wrong. Quench thin 1095 from 1600 F and you'll see what I mean. I came across a knife makers booth that had than procedure written on the sign.
 
these are not questions for me and my personal info on heat treating first off.

second even if i was asking questions you would see that i am asking questions that are out of the norm. of what is written

i want to know your ways that you have come up with heat treating a steel from expierence so instead of find threads that you can bash why dont you find threads that you can help like this one.

it is just cool to me to think that i am not the only one that believes that some of this voodoo actually works and would love to try some of your guys voodoo and see what i think works best and others can do this also with this thread.

read all of it before posting again.

thanks for keeping it on subject.
 
I see what you're trying to do and I commend it Chad, I'd even try to contribute here but for once I'm sick of talking about HT for a little while. I guess also because if I got into any particular steel I use I'd end up typing a full page about it, I'm not that ambitious right now.
 
Well here lately Ive really enjoyed Howard Clarks 1086M..Its easy to get a nice active hamon and is just an awsome steel..I also like W2 a lot whic is also easy to get a nice attractive hamon with..
**These two steels are much more than just hamon steels..They are super performers in my opnion**
For both the heat treat is pretty much the same..
*normalizing
*Soak for 8 minutes @ 1440*
*Quench in Parks 50 or if your feeling jiggy water/brine
* Temper at least twice
For a hamon less clay is better, you can almost draw on the steel with clay..
Then less etch more polish..
I also like 1084 a lot and use it for a lot of hunters,camp knives etc..
 
This is a very generic heat treat. The temperatures and soak times vary between steels

Forging – Begin at (1800-2000F) and reduce the heat as I get closer to shape.
Normalizing - Heat to 1600F and air cool. Heat to 1500F(sometimes quench). Heat to 1400F and allow to air cool. Heat to 1200F and allow to air cool. At this point I file/grind almost completely to shape, allowing stock at the edge for the final quench. It sounds like a lot but it is only an extra 15-20minutes.
Hardening – Coat in clay slip. Slow heat to 1475-1525F(dependant on steel), soak if necessary and fully quench in pre-heated quench specific oil. (Houghton Quench K)
Tempering - First cycle at 375F for 2hrs and check hardness. I temper 3 times, total and straighten any warps during the cycles. My final temper is usually around 425F. Any blade over an 8 inches usually gets the spine blued, depending on its intended use.
 
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Ok, heres my favorite steel as of right now. It's M2 high speed steel. I use it for knives I want to have adequate toughness, but the edge holding is outstanding. I use it pre-hardened in the form of old saw blades. Following is the standard heat treatment for such blades.

chad2 said:
from start to finish what is the process you use on your steel of choice or any steel that you use

normallizing None. It's not recommended for steels that air harden

thermal cycling Pre-heat before hardening, 1200 F or so. Possibly in 2 stages for short hold at 1800 F

annealing Spheroidize annealed for ease of shaping.

hardening Here's the fun part.

the temps you use 2190 F for austenizing.

soak times 5 to 10 minutes during austenizing. 2 hours during tempering

inbetween times

cryo Yes please. Slow cool, held 40 hours, slow heat back to room temp.

temper temps 1050 F.

temp of oil you quench in 1045 F.

type of oil you quench in No oil. Molten salt bath. Air cool afterward.

even the temp of your room temperature inbetween tempers.

and most of all what type of steel. M2

this thread is for helping better the world of heat treating

help is alway wanted BUT PLEASE DO NOT TELL SOMEONE THAT THEY ARE WRONG!!!

giving advise is different then saying (that wont work):D

i am sick of the fast boring heat treating processes. Well this should alleviate some boredom.
Click to expand...

This is a very complex steel, and there is a reason for each step in the process. I'll revise my previous statement. I won't say ways are wrong, unless you crack the blade. I will say some processes used on certain steels work a whole lot better than others.
 
Rick Marchand said:
This is a very generic heat treat. The temperatures and soak times vary between steels

Forging – Begin at (1800-2000F) and reduce the heat as I get closer to shape.
Normalizing - Heat to 1600F and air cool. Heat to 1500F(sometimes quench). Heat to 1400F and allow to air cool. Heat to 1200F and allow to air cool. At this point I file/grind almost completely to shape, allowing stock at the edge for the final quench. It sounds like a lot but it is only an extra 15-20minutes.
Hardening – Coat in clay slip. Slow heat to 1475-1525F(dependant on steel), soak if necessary and fully quench in pre-heated quench specific oil. (Houghton Quench K)
Tempering - First cycle at 375F for 2hrs and check hardness. I temper 3 times, total and straighten any warps during the cycles. My final temper is usually around 425F. Any blade over an 8 inches usually gets the spine blued, depending on its intended use.
Click to expand...

in general then, what steels could be done with this heat treat i know a few but lets post it :)
 
Mostly, i use W2 and 1095, as i like them for non stainless carbon steels. I am usually trying to get a hamon out of them, and use them for kitchen cutlery.


normallizing: If i forge it, i cycle 3 times after forging at, 1400, 1300, 1200

thermal cycling

annealing: heat to non magnetic and put in wood ashes/vermiculite

hardening: 1450-1475 for a 10 minute soak and quench in 98 degree Parks #50

the temps you use:1450-1475 depending on thickness of stock

soak times:10 minutes

inbetween times

cryo: N/A

temper temps: no higher than 400 degrees

temp of oil you quench in: 98 degrees

type of oil you quench in: Heatbath Metallurgical/Parks #50

even the temp of your room temperature inbetween tempers: Usually to where i can hold it comfortably

and most of all what type of steel.: W2

This is my general HT process for my kitchen knives. I will be stepping into the realm of stainless soon, and that is a whole different beast.

Mike
 
chad2 said:
in general then, what steels could be done with this heat treat i know a few but lets post it :)
Click to expand...

These are the steels I mostly use:
5160 - 1525F Austenizing Temp, 5min soak, 400F temper
1070/80 - 1500F Austenizing Temp, 5min soak, 400-425F temper
1084 - 1475F Austenizing Temp, 5min soak, 400-450F temper
1095 - 1475F Austenizing Temp, 15min soak, 425-450F temper
O1 - 1250F, 25min pre-soak, 1475F Austenizing Temp, 5min soak, 450-475F temper

I leave smaller/thinner knives a bit harder.

If I am using my LP forge to heat treat, I stick with 1070/80/84 steel and do not attempt soaking.

I use Houghton Quench K in my shop and Canola whenever I am set up, elsewhere.
 
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Patrice Lemée;10368588 said:
1084, 1095, 5160?
Did I win?
What's the prize?
What was the question again? :)
Click to expand...

nope you forgot 52100 can also be done with this process :)
 
has anyone tried water quenching after the first temper? helps change Ra i am going to be trying this on my 5160 see how it does. what do you think?
 
I mostly use HSS, and send out for heat treatment, so not much for me to discus. A lot of folks send out to Bos, or Peters for heat treatment, and most people here try to keep up with the science and heat treat to manufacturer specifications. I suppose some people using low alloy steels or those trying to produce an excellent hamon have more of a unique procedure
 
chad2 said:
has anyone tried water quenching after the first temper? helps change Ra i am going to be trying this on my 5160 see how it does. what do you think?
Click to expand...
I water quench after tempering on a recommendation by Roman Landes. I can't tell the difference but he claims it helps with regard to cold embrittlement and I trust his work.
 
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Same here. I tried it a few times on test knives but didn't feel I had a good way to determine if it was helping or not so I didn't do it on customer knives. After the subject came up here and I got verification that it is at worst neutral and may help I use it every time. Both temper cycles are finished with a dip under running water. I'm using 1080 and 1084.
 
is there aymore voodoo??? i know there are people out there with some voodoo heat treating.
 
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