ASP Vs Knife

3

30-30 Cal.

Joined
Jan 1, 2004
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243
Out of curiosity, which do you folks consider to be the most effective means of self protection? From what I understand, a man trained in the use of an ASP, such as a Police Officer, can either kill or maim a person using a ASP. Would the speed, force, and reach of an ASP overcome a person knowledgable in the use of a knife? Is carrying a ASP legal?

Thanks,

Dave
 
the ASP uses basic skills, even untrained it's instictive to club someone with a stick.

someone thats out to get you with a knife, or on something, will not feel the pain you inflict unless it stops em(like smashing a kneecap or KOing them).

When I'm out at night, I take my ASP. Can be used up a wide range of the force levels, and is easy enough to put in your pocket.

That said, someone with good reflexes and speed, given training with a knife, can close inside your range for the ASP. Leaves you with butt strikes or backing up quickly.
 
Let me be the first to say that Police Officers are NOT trained to kill or maime someone with an ASP. I have been through several police baton/ASP courses and we are taught never to strike certain lethal areas. In fact, the ASP is used to target major muscle groups or nerve points on the arms and legs only. The ASP is not intended to be a deadly force tool (in police applications).

Check your state laws. Carrying an ASP in Texas is illegal.
 
Any state with laws against carrying a billy, bludgeon, club, etc will frown on ASP carry, especially since the telescoping makes it automatically "concealed."
It's a great weapon, but as was said- without training, all it takes is one wild swing for the attacker to get in close to stab, choke, etc.
Simply carrying a weapon should not give you confidence. Training in it should, though.
 
Shaarpstick,

I didn't mean to say Police Officers are trained to kill or main, bad use of words.

Bad Example, good comments regarding laws on billy's, etc. I suspect the ASP is illegal in most states. However, I will probably carry one anyway, and train with it. It's too good a means of self-defense not to, in my opinion.

Dave
 
Application for a concealed weapons permit (if you're eligible, not criminal record, psychiatric problems, etc.) may make it legal for you to carry a baton, at least I see no reason that it wouldn't. A baton is certainly less lethal than a pistol. At the worst I'd say it's worth checking into.
 
Good advice above. As an active duty police officer I can tell you that we recieve training in striking large muscle groups in arms/legs when we are forced to use an A.S.P. as an intermediate weapon. We don't recieve actual training to strike head/neck area as that would constitue force reasonably calculated that could produce death or serious bodily injury (ie: deadly force). With that said, we are told that we are justified in striking head/neck area if we can justify using deadly force on the offender( if I am justified in using my firearm to stop the threat, I could use A.S.P. in anyway to stop threat). This is not granted lightly and is acceptable only in situations that I am protecting myself, another individual, or the public at large against dangerous threat (and to affect an arrest on a suspect that reasonably constitutes serious threat to the public if left at large...ie: known violent offender). Ofcourse these are the procedures for my department alone, but as I understand it, they are fairly similar across the board to a degree.

In many/most jurisdictions the A.S.P. baton is treated as any nightstick, sap, blackjack...etc, and is considered an illegal weapon whereas a fixed blade or folding knife of 3-4" is not, as long as there as no intent to go armed (ie: not considered a weapon in itself...double bladed knives, switchblades/automatic knives, push daggers, razor blades and such are frequently excluded from this exception). If you choose to carry a legally suitable knife and you use it to defend yourself, you'd better be able to justify using deadly force (even if you did not injure someone with it). May I suggest a suitable knife, pepper spray, some self defense training (if possible), and most importantly some situational awareness! Oh, and a concealed carry permit would be great (that mix would give you many tools for different situations)! Sorry for the long sentences.

edited for spelling and punctuation
 
At least in my jurisdiction, a concealed carry permit only gives you the right to carry a concealed pistol, not any other restricted weapon. A security guard license and such things can specify legal carry of certain intermediate weapons such as the baton.

edited for spelling

re-edited because Iam a slouch at typing
 
GunzHot,

Thanks for the information. One of the reasons I brought the question up is, in a self defense situation, I consider a knife to be use of deadly force. Someone could and probably will, end up dead. Whereas, the ASP could be used to injure without killing. Sqeamish? I don't think so, I'd rather be in court for breaking a guys arm with an illegal weapon than in court for killing a man with a legal weapon. (although i do carry a knife and would use it if forced).

Am I being illogical?

Regards,
dave
 
I decided to see what the law is in my state (Virginia) regarding ASP, knives, etc. It's actually very clear, you cannot carry, hidden from common observation, a pistol, revolver or other weapon designed to propel a missile of any kind; any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade, ballistic knife, razor, slinghshot, SPRING Stick, metal knucks, blackjack, etc, etc.

The charges can get serious, 1st offenseis a class I misdemeanor; 2nd is a class 6 felony, 3rd is a class 5 felony.

The definition of a hidden weapon, in this state, is a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such a deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapons true nature.

This section of the law then goes on to tell people how to get a license to carry a concealed handgun. Go Figure!

If I am reading this right, almost any tactical folder could be considered illegal.

Anyway, I've talked myself out of carrying a ASP, although I'd still like to.

Dave
 
In any fight, I look for 'distance.' If I can get home to my couch before the cretin knows I'm missing, then that is the pefect strategy.

In gun vs. knife, I'm pro-gun and I preach the 21 foot rule. In a saloon dust-up, I put on my helmet and grab a pool cue or a bar stool. Then I back out.

In an argument with my wife, I manuever for the chocolate.

For your debate, I'd go for the ASP. Then I'd run my mouth to try and get out of it, back away, scream like a girl, light a road flare, whatever it took.
 
Tourist,

Me too. I fight only as a last resort. By the way, I read the Law Code a little closer, it defines a spring stick as a spring-loaded metal stick activated by pushing a button which rapidly and forcefully telescopes the weapon to several times its original lienght. All the ASP's I've seen (and that's only a few) telescoped out when swung. There was no button or spring mechanism.

Dave
 
Why choose?

Strider Rapid Deployment Tomahawk

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Seriously...carry both!

Laws depend on where you live...both are equally effective with the proper training.

RL
 
.30-30...the particular items you mention being illegal per the statute do not necessarily preclude the folding knife nor even a fixed blade. Check the definitions part of the statute to see what their idea of a bowie, etc is. Many times it is vague to be inclusive of many items, but the wording that you typed would not keep either fixed/folding knife or A.S.P. from being an option (dirk typically is double edged dagger...spring baton is a spring material billy type stick not an A.S.P....and a bowie knife typically is thought of as a large 7" + blade length). I too say that in most cases flight is the proper first response and some jurisdictions require that option be exhausted before deadly force is authorized (read duty to retreat...ie: Florida). I urge you to consider a good pepper spray as an option as it gives a somewhat ranged option other than firearms. Perhaps the new air taser units may be an option, specificaly the x-26 model as I have heard good things about it and it is small. Another source of excellent information is www.selfdefenseforums.com ...many knowledgable folks over their and they could assist you with locating an effective self defense course close to you. Stay safe and God Bless!

edited because Iam the edit King
 
The Virginny "code" is a funny one indeed.

in the old Dominion one can carry any size blade legaly (be prepared for harrasment if its a sword, but I carried my blades openly in VA and you can too...even saw one dude walk into the police station with his kabar straped on while getting my CCW)JUST MAKE SURE IT HAS ONLY ONE EDGE.

In Virginia they changed the CCW to say "handgun", so concealed knives etc. are out... Get a khar MK-9 and EXCISE THE DEMONS :D

Careful about what is allowed, Switches for example are forbidden to conceal, and if they ceatch you wearing openly you get arrested for that too!

Now back to topic:

Gravity wepons are not as good as edged, for the simple fact that you NEED distance, you dont need distance to swing with a knife cause you can stab from waist level and gut the sucker before he knows what hapened to him.

For open carry I suggest a knife that looks good, respectable, is sharp as a razor, easy to maintain, and is built out of good materials and @ 60 rc.

https://www.helleknife.com/indexx.html
 
Dave - there is a section in this forum called Practical Tactical where subjects like this can be debated endlessly. :)
 
Originally posted by Tzvi
Gravity wepons are not as good as edged, for the simple fact that you NEED distance, you dont need distance to swing with a knife cause you can stab from waist level and gut the sucker before he knows what hapened to him.
Click to expand...

What if you already have distance? Isn't it smarter to be able to to keep an attacker at bay from a distance? What if you don't want to "gut the sucker"? The ASP provides a less than lethal alternative with capabilities of causing significant blunt trauma to kill or maim. Before you discount the validity of something try training against someone who has had baton or stick training and see how difficult it is to get into close "gut the sucker" distance.:cool:

I agree with Boink, send this one to Prac Tac!

Dayuhan13
 
Thanks for your responses. There's so many issues to discuss when the subject of self-defense comes up. I like Gunshotz idea of pepper spray, and I've already looked into it.

As for sending this thread to tactics and Training, can that be done? If so, how?

regards,

Dave
 
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