At what point is it considered forged?

F

First Twin

Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
104
Many makers sell blades that look forged. Many others sell forged blades that look ground. How much forging should we do on a blade to claim that process? What do you do? What do you expect when you spend your money?

Charlie Mathews
Twin Blades
Charter Member Georgia Knifemakers Guild
 
Well, if a blade is profiled by forging then I would consider it "forged" but you don't forge the bevel then you've lost a big part of what makes forging more efficient.
 
:D :D Now why is it a guy making a blade by stock removal can't get it hot, but those guys forging blades can stick 'em in the fire?:D :D
 
I don't know if you can really define how close you have to get to the final shape before you can call it a forged blade. There are makers that forge to a rough shape and then grind the rest of the way, and there are those that forge until the blade is almost completely to shape. My personal preference is for the later, because to me it shows more skill.
 
Charlie that's a darn good question. I would venture that any stock that has been heated and flattened to 'shape' qualifies as forged. And as Keith has allowed getting it as close to shape as possible would be ideal.

I 'forged' a small blade-like thing a few years ago at an ABS hammer-in. After I got home and got on it with my grinding, I removed about 50% more material to really make it shapely and thin. (I swear it's a sweetheart that is yet unfinished. Someday.....)

Anyway, There's a THICK line between what I did and what a good Bladesmith could produce. Both are forged.

As in all things 'Custom' just being honest with your customers makes all the difference in the world.

Now I bring up a larger question: Material purchased for stock removal has of couse been 'forged' to shape. The forge may have been a giant extrusion roller. How very different is that? (I'm am being the Devil's Advocate for argument's sake...)

Coop
 
What's the old saw from the middle ages?

If thou would a good edge win,
First forge it thick, then grind it thin.

Not that this is the way I do it. But, then again, my blades are no good and won't cut and only have one side anyway.

Jimmy ;)
 
Durwood
Everyone of those guys sticking their blades in that hot fire is holding the blade with tongs. The temperature generated while grinding just tells you that it is time to see how the grind is looking.
Just my theory on things.
Charlie
Twin Blades
 
This is probobly a question of personal preference more than anything.
We've all seen blades of both "forging" and stock reduction that we didn't care for. We've also seen both make our eyes widen. I heat my blades and hammer them to basic shape . Then they get filed to finish ( I don't grind . Too noisy ). I don't consider this forging because the steel is already it's thickness when I start. In other words it's flatstock. I think forging is drawing the shape out completely from a rod, bearing, block,etc. If a fold is done, I think this too makes it a forged piece. I also feel that no amount of grinding can take the name away from such. The heattreating/tempering comes later anyway .
Mike
 
If I don't change the steel in all its dimentions I don't feel like I am forging. A
piece of flat stock has already been forged and there is no need to continue the process. If you heat the end of the bar in the forge and then rough shape a point with your hammer does that count as forging? It would have been easier done by profiling on the grinder. When you take a 3inch section of 15/8 inch torque shaft and pound it into a blade that is not only shaped to profile but in all its dimentions, then you can lay claim to the knife being forged. I started out forging and like many did it by hand for a couple of years. When you forge a 1 inch round bar of 1095 into a knife blank, using your arm and a three pound hammer and it takes you two days to do it. You are forging, there is no doubt. Your arm will tell you so. :thumbup: Fred
 
The word "forging" brings to my mind of something that was heated up high enough to change its shape by some type of outside force. Whether it is a three pound hammer or a 500 pound power hammer. The amount of forging would depend on the initial shape of the steel and the final shape. Whether you do a lot or a little would also depend on how much additional shaping by hand or power tools to get the desired finished product. There was a world of difference between my old Wirk knife and the Quillion dagger I made. Both were forged.
The point of forging is that you are able to use other suitable steels of various shapes to get it flat enough to make a knife. During the forging of the knife, you will also have the responsibility of performing the necessary steps to insure that the knife will have the optimum characteristics of a blade that will exceed the last one you did. This is what forging means to me.
There will be some knives of the same style that will take less hamming and grinding and you will think you finally have it, till the next on anyway. That is how it is. You can get a ticket for speeding for 10 mph over or 50 mph over and it is still a speeding ticket.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
If I don't change the steel in all its dimentions I don't feel like I am forging.

For a number of years I felt the sameway as Fred. Funny how the ageing process will change the way you think. I've done several forging demo's. One of the first things I say is a bladesmith best friend is his mother. Next in line is his grinder. I feel a blade can be over forged. I try and stop forging before they reach this point. Only so many blows left in my arm and I'd like to save as many as I can.
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Raymond Richard said:
Fred.Rowe said:
If I don't change the steel in all its dimentions I don't feel like I am forging.

For a number of years I felt the sameway as Fred. Funny how the ageing process will change the way you think. I've done several forging demo's. One of the first things I say is a bladesmith best friend is his mother. Next in line is his grinder. I feel a blade can be over forged. I try and stop forging before they reach this point. Only so many blows left in my arm and I'd like to save as many as I can.
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Thats a good point Raymond, about the arm. Since I like to forge better than I like to grind, I try to get as much done as I can with the air hammer before I sit down at the grinder. I believe you are working to hard if you try to do the profile of the blade by forging; but I do put as much of the distal taper into the blank as I can. Forging the basic, drop in the blade down the spine is something I try to do while forging also. My rule of thumb is : 10 minutes on the hammer will save me a half hour on the grinder. I'll take that trade.
I am in my early sixties and have not gotten any smarter as I have aged; I guess , I have just become more determined. It's you, young, west coast dudes that get smarter with age. I hear it's the salt air. Fred :cool:
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The Second Twin(Harry) has been working on a blade he forged out of a piece of a landscape rake about 1 inch wide, 5 inches long and 3/8 inch thick. There isn't an original surface left on the blade. The blade is about 4 inches long with a three inch tang.There also isn't a straight line on the blade just curves. It is looking great. To me that is what forging is about. He has made a knife out of a piece of steel I couldn't grind one from. You can only remove metal with a grinder not move metal.
 
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