ATP-461 Anti-Scale alternatives?

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googlebutt

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Jun 4, 2018
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I'm going to be HTing my first knife this week, I've been trying to track down some ATP-461, but Brownell's will be back ordered for some time. I've read about the PBC powder, but the ATP-641 seems much more user friendly. Any suggestions for an anti-scale liquid similar to ATP-641?
 
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You can order direct from the manufacturer, a while back I ordered from them and it was just a couple emails.
 
What steel are you HTing? Are you using an oven or a forge? If it is a simple carbon steel or you are using a forge, don't worry about it. If using a forge, run a rich atmosphere. For anything that requires a long soak, use stainless foil. If your first ever HT is a stainless or similar, that is gonna suck, best of luck and read up before you proceed.
 
joedhiggins said:
What steel are you HTing? Are you using an oven or a forge? If it is a simple carbon steel or you are using a forge, don't worry about it. If using a forge, run a rich atmosphere. For anything that requires a long soak, use stainless foil. If your first ever HT is a stainless or similar, that is gonna suck, best of luck and read up before you proceed.
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I'm HTing 1080 in an Atlas mini forge. Since I'm hand filing/sanding, I figured I would do what I can to reduce labor post HT. I shot ATP an email, if they don't get back to me by the time I'm ready to HT, I'll just go for it.
 
You could try a light wash of borax. Most people just bust out the corser grit sand paper and go at it. Keep your eye on the temp and don’t soak for to long. Also dile the burner back so it’s a reducing flame and you have dragons breath coming out the ends. This will keep most if not all the scale off the blade while it’s heating up. But do not take it out of the forge. Once the blade hits the air it will scale. So heat it evenly in a dark room or outside at night and go right to the quench.
 
googlebutt said:
I'm HTing 1080 in an Atlas mini forge. Since I'm hand filing/sanding, I figured I would do what I can to reduce labor post HT. I shot ATP an email, if they don't get back to me by the time I'm ready to HT, I'll just go for it.
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Just run 6" or so of dragon's breath. A little more if you just want to be sure. Use HCL (muriatic acid) or vinegar/salt to remove the scale. You won't have any decarb issues, and the scale is easy to deal with.
 
I am glad to see that K&G are carrying Turco II again. They stopped for a while. It is well worth the price, ansd a quart goes a long way.
 
I contacted ATP and they're shipping me a pint on Thursday. They have really great customer service if anyone is in need!

If I understand correctly, dragons breath essentially shields the steel from the air as you move it in and out of the forge while it heats up? How does one control the amount of dragons breath, in regards to the Atlas Mini forge?
 
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Dragons breath just generally means your forge environment is rich, so the majority if not all the oxygen inside is being used to burn rather than interact with your blade.
 
googlebutt said:
I contacted ATP and they're shipping me a pint on Thursday. They have really great customer service if anyone is in need!

If I understand correctly, dragons breath essentially shields the steel from the air as you move it in and out of the forge while it heats up? How does one control the amount of dragons breath, in regards to the Atlas Mini forge?
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You have to make a choke to decrease the air draw. A piece of tin foil/copper/sheet metal made into a 1" sleeve that will slide on the burner tube. Slide it up over the air draw space to block it slightly. Adjust the gas pressure and the choke to get a dragon's breath . Charles had made a choke for his Atlas burners at one time. He may still offer them. Check with him.
 
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