ATR not rated as MBC

K

Kublai

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2000
Messages
577
Just curious why the ATR is not rated as an MBC folder on Spyderco's site? My impression was that it was initially designed to be an all around folder, but with MBC characteristcis in mind.
 
MBC rated only refers to the lock strength. Not all of the knives have it advertised as such because calling it MBC rated could give someone the perception that it's designed as a weapon.

MBC or Very Heavy Duty means it's lock takes up to 200 lbs or pressure per inch of blade before failing.

As a stainless steel integral compression lock, I would bet next weeks paycheck that it is Very Heavy Duty(or MBC if you prefer) rated.
 
Which version of the ATR are you referring to? I remember the Ti ATR being very much MBC rated. I love my Ti ATR, the lock is very solid!

Wouter
 
Guys,

If you go to Spyderco's site and click on Catalog, then click on APPLICATION, a drop down menu will appear with a link to Martial Blade Craft. Neither version of the ATR is listed.

I'm aware that an MBC rating is primarily based on lock strength. Which is why I asked in the first place since the compression lock usually out-performs the liner lock. But after your posts I remembered Sal posting that frame-locks (integral) actually failed before standard sandwich construction liner locks.

I guess this may answer the question: Integral compression lock is not as strong as an inlaid compression locking bar or the more traditional lock back. Which may explain why the Para Military is listed but not the standard, larger Military. A standard Military with a compression lock would be extremely cool.

Sal, I'm sure you've thought of this...any prospect of a future run?
 
The C70 ATR was included in a list of "knife designs geared toward MBC use" in the 2004 catalog (the last catalog to mention the MBC Program.

Also included in the 2004 list of knife designs "geared toward MBC use" were the Delica and Endura trainers, Chinook II, Gunting and Gunting trainer, Lil' Temp, Kerambit, Yohimbo, Temperance trainer, and Ronin. (I don't know why the Delica, Endura, and Temperance knives were not included in the list - just the trainers :confused: ).

David
 
4 s ter said:
The C70 ATR was included in a list of "knife designs geared toward MBC use" in the 2004 catalog (the last catalog to mention the MBC Program.

Also included in the 2004 list of knife designs "geared toward MBC use" were the Delica and Endura trainers, Chinook II, Gunting and Gunting trainer, Lil' Temp, Kerambit, Yohimbo, Temperance trainer, and Ronin. (I don't know why the Delica, Endura, and Temperance knives were not included in the list - just the trainers :confused: ).

David
Click to expand...

Right. This is what I remember. Thanks Dave. So I wonder why the current list on their web site has been modified? Maybe at the time, research and testing for MBC rating was not fully developed or standardized, hence the phrase "geared towards MBC" as opposed to "MBC rated." I'm always impressed when I talk to Sal at shows the amount of research and development he and his team put into their models. After conversations with other folks in the industry, it seems like Sal's approach to R&D is unprecedented.
 
Kublai said:
I'm aware that an MBC rating is primarily based on lock strength. Which is why I asked in the first place since the compression lock usually out-performs the liner lock. But after your posts I remembered Sal posting that frame-locks (integral) actually failed before standard sandwich construction liner locks.
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to that? I'm curious to read that, I was under the impression it was the opposite.

As for the ATR not being under the MBC category, don't know what to tell you about that. Looking at the knives in that category, you'll notice that several of them are not MBC rated at all, such as the Civilian and Delica Trainer. Both of those I would estimate to be just shy of MBC rated, probably Heavy Duty.

The Temperance and Spyderfly don't even have locks, which leads me to believe that MBC category is for knives designed with MBC in mind, not necessarily the lock strength.

Though why the Spyderfly is with the MBC knives is beyond me...:confused:
 
Kublai said:
So I wonder why the current list on their web site has been modified? Maybe at the time, research and testing for MBC rating was not fully developed or standardized, hence the phrase "geared towards MBC" as opposed to "MBC rated."
Click to expand...

Spyderco catalogs no longer refer to Martial Blade Craft. That name went by the wayside with the departure of Michael Janich (and Bram Frank ?) from Spyderco's MBC program. I'm sure the research and testing continues, however Spyderco now uses "very heavy duty" as the highest strength rating instead of "MBC"

Here's the text of a post by Sal which provides some detail:

The Manix is running over 200 inch/lbs per inch of blade which would rate it Very Heavy Duty (same as MBC, but as suggested by a forumite, MBC may not be a good name for the rating considering the large number of customers that have no interest in Martial Blade Craft (MBC).

There is no governing body that sets rating. Spyderco employs our own in-house rating system in the construction of our designs. We set the desired standard when we design the model and build to that standard. We test (break) the models in development and continue to test (break) the models to ensure that our standards have not changed.

In-house Lock strength standards

Light Duty = over 25 inch/lbs of lock strength per inch of blade length
Medium Duty = over 50 inch/lbs per inch of blade length
Heavy Duty = over 100 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Very Heavy Duty (MBC) = over 200 inch/lbs of lock strength per inch of blade length.

We also have our standards for G-10 (ours is custom made), blade strength, and other general safety issues.

sal

I think the some of the current list of knives in the Martial Blade Craft section of the online catalog on Spyderco.com (e.g. Spyderfly) are there because they can be used for that "Application" not because they meet the former "MBC" strength class.

David
 
Cool info guys. Thanks.

smcfalls13, I don't have a link to the info, but you may find it on search. It was a few years back.
 
just get the Spyderco Manix. best folder IMO. doubles as a great SD knife and a utility blade. cant be beaten!
 
smcfalls13 said:
MBC rated only refers to the lock strength. Not all of the knives have it advertised as such because calling it MBC rated could give someone the perception that it's designed as a weapon.

MBC or Very Heavy Duty means it's lock takes up to 200 lbs or pressure per inch of blade before failing.
Click to expand...


I prefer to carry knives that are not marketed, named, or otherwise overtly identified as "weapon" knives, combat knives, etc. I think that courts legal trouble if it should have to be used defensively.

Now, as far as MBC, you mention failure pressure, but I ask is there no consideration for security, i.e. inadvertent lock disengagement during use?

-Jeffrey
 
peacefuljeffrey said:
I prefer to carry knives that are not marketed, named, or otherwise overtly identified as "weapon" knives, combat knives, etc. I think that courts legal trouble if it should have to be used defensively.
Click to expand...

I agree. My EDC knives are all fairly harmless sounding.

peacefuljeffrey said:
Now, as far as MBC, you mention failure pressure, but I ask is there no consideration for security, i.e. inadvertent lock disengagement during use?
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a way to numerically measure that, but it would be interesting to see it if possible. Lock failure is likely to be fairly consistent with the manufacturing, and it's simple to measure. But accidental lock disengagement is contingent upon so many factors it would be difficult to measure.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see some kinda of objective measurement, but I don't think it's feasible.
 
SIFU1A is correct.

The Spyderco announcement introducing the titanium ATR dated 12/31/02 states that due to the integral compression lock, the ATR is catogorized as a Martial Bladecraft rated lock strength folder.

dave/recoil
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top