ATS-34 vs. CPM 440V

Barry H

Barry H

Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
1,692
I was curious if someone has the time to give me a brief description of ATS-34 and CPM 440V. Pros and cons of each?
Thanks!
Barry H.
 
From my experiences with both, I have found ATS-34 holds an edge extremely well but not as long as CPM-440V and ATS-34 is also some what on the brittle side compared to CPM-440V.

Here is an excellent steel chart from Spyderco's web site. Spyderco's Steel Chart

Mark


[This message has been edited by Mark W Douglas (edited 05-01-2000).]
 
Over on the Benchmade site, there is a GREAT discussion on how 440V is made. It is the first time that I have seen a discussion that a non-metallurgist could undertstand. Go here: http://www.benchmade.com/ and then scroll down the left side and click on "Metallurgy".

I forgot to add that my experience with 440V is that there is no comparison with ANY other steel as far as edge holding and stain resistance. There have been some complaints of softness if the edge is too fine, it rolls over or dents, but if you leave the edge fairly thick, you should be very happy.


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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 05-01-2000).]
 
No comparison between the two steels. ATS34 is nothing in the edge holding department compared to CPM440V. I dont care for ATS34 that much anyway. BG42 is much better than ATS34 in the non partical metallurgical catagory.

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Danbo, soul brother of Rambo
 
Uh oh. Now I've got to retire my ATS-34 folders and get some CPM 440Vs
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"Hey honey, can I use the credit card again ..."

David
 
i have many ATS-34 blades all of which perform very well, but they can't compare to the 2 440V knives i have.incredible edge holding and very tough.
 
i have many ATS-34 blades all of which perform very well, but they can't compare to the 2 440V knives i have.incredible edge holding and very tough.
 
It appears that I am once again the sole dissenter here. 440V is good. IMO, it may even be better than ATS-34. However, in my experience (with a BF Native, a Spydie Military, numerous BM ATS-34 blades, and one custom ATS-34 blade), the difference in edge holding and corrosion resistance is so small as to be almost imperceptible, and definitely in my opinion, insiginificant. If you're trying to make a choice between two knives, one ATS-34 and one 440V, don't make the choice based on the steel. Make the choice based on the design, or the maker/manufacturer. If you are lucky enough to be able to choose between ATS-34 and 440V in the same design/maker, then I'd have to say, choose 440V. At least it seems to be easier to get shaving sharp.

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iktomi

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 05-02-2000).]

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 05-02-2000).]
 
As is often said, the heat treat is easily as important as the steel. A good steel with a bad heat treat is worthless as a blade, and a 'bad' steel with a good hea treat may easily outperform it.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
440v does hold an edge extremely well, just don't hit a staple or other piece of metal in what your'e cutting. This steel is extremely brittle and when put through the old "brass rod" flex test, chips easily.
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"We are the musicmakers, and we are dreamers of dreams"
 
Geez! A couple of days ago this post had not replies. Wow! Thanks for all the input. It seems most production knives these days offer ATS-34 and nothing else. I recently picked up a Kershaw Avalanche and noticed that most of the Speed Safe designs use the 440V. How much longer can I expect to work my 204 to keep the edge razor sharp?
Thanks again for all the input!!
Barry H.
 
Did someone say staple?

I am also a dissenting voice in this discussion. I have chosen knives according to the stony arachnid's advice. I gave up a Starmate because it just didn't fit my hand. Undoubtedly it is a great knife but 440V steel wasn't enough reason to keep it.. I'm a fan of the Military, mine is ATS34, a great deal. I have several Benchmade knives in ATS34. I don't feel deprived. 440V, according to Sal Glesser, does hold an edge mearurably longer than ATS34. To me, that means I might sharpen my knives 20% more with ATS34.....doubt if I'd notice. Sal Glesser has also said that he's still learning about 440V. I think it's exciting that makers are experimenting with new materials, though. I'm just conservative enough to be satisfied with ATS34, I guess.
 
Does anyone have any info on the Fallkniven VG-10 steel in comparison to the above?

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by Barry H:
I recently picked up a Kershaw Avalanche and noticed that most of the Speed Safe designs use the 440V. How much longer can I expect to work my 204 to keep the edge razor sharp?
Click to expand...

Actually, I do believe that most of the Speed Safe designs use 440A, with the Avalanche, Random Task, and the new Cobra (or is that not going to be a Kershaw product?) being 440V.

ptn, glad to hear you're liking that ATS-34 Military. The Military is a GREAT design, IMO. Probably the best pure working folder that I have.

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iktomi
 
Hi Guys,

I'm looking for a good pocket knife and the two I'm trying to choose between are Benchmade Axis 710 with M2 or Kershaw Ricochet with 440V. I know that steel isn't everything, but I like both of the knives and it pretty much comes down to which of these steels is better. I'll use it as a utility knife mostly and stain resistance is not an issue for me. Which one of these do you think is tougher and holds an edge better.

Thanks.
 
M2 is tougher. Assuming you do not only cut paper, toughness is a big part of edge-holding, because a lot of dulling comes from nearly imperceptible twisting and chipping of the edge. And, I think M2 also has better edge-holding, even in 'perfect' cutting. Plus, the Axis lock on the 710 is incredible.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
I vote for M-2 on this one. But more importantly, the Axis lock is so far superior to Kershaw's liner locks, that even without the steel question, the 710 should be an easy winner.

Joe
 
Go with the 710 Axis man...even in the ATS-34 model if need be, just to avoid the BT2 coating.
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(or you could hand finish the M2 blade.) Kershaw doesn't really know how to make liner locks yet.
wink.gif


-AR

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- AKTI Member ID# A000322
 
Ace, get the 710HS. Then come back here and find out from Joe Talmadge how to sharpen it up nicshely! It will need to be back-beveled to get that really keeeeeen
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edge. But, after that, there'll be no turnin' back.
biggrin.gif


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iktomi
 
Thanks Guys,

This makes my decision easier. I really like 710 my only thing was steel and BT2 coating, but since you guys tell me that 710 is so much better that's what I'll get. I guess I would have to close my eyes on BT2, after all it's there for a reason. Or like Jackyl suggested take that stuff off. How would I do that by the way?

Thanks.
 
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